Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Blues Hall of Fame inductee, Mavis Staples has had a remarkable career. She sang with her family band which moved from their church roots in the 50s to the vanguard of the Civil Rights movement in the 60s, before becoming a commercially successful R&B group in the 70s. Turning solo, Mavis recorded with Prince and in the last twelve years or so, has re-invented herself as a rootsy, bluesy, Americana artist, with a heavy dose of gospel. Her latest album, If All I Was Was Black addresses the broken heart of today’s America, suggesting that, despite the racism, violence and lying, redemption is possible. Mavis Staples wants to “Bring us all together as a people – that’s what I hope to do. You can’t stop me. You can’t break me. I’m too loving,” she says. “These songs are going to change the world.”
Down at the Crossroads caught her show in Union Chapel, London. Here’s what we learned:
Mavis Staples is a lovely person. That’s it. No qualifications. She loves her band, she loves performing and she loves her audience. And it showed from the moment she breezed onto the stage to warm applause and cheering at Union Chapel.
Union Chapel is a wonderful concert venue in north London. It’s a working church which hosts gigs by major artists and recording sessions, and has fantastic acoustics. Nobody is very far from the artist which gives the whole things a wonderful, intimate feeling. You can sign up for dinner before a gig and so get in early to nab your seat – and contribute to the church’s homeless ministry by so doing.
Mavis’s first song set the stage for the rest of her set – she sang about “love and peace,” and invited the audience to “take my hand.” “I got people who love me,” she sang, in that unmistakable voice which can rasp, croon, scat or belt it out, as the need may be. You begin to feel the love, forgetting for a while Trump, Brexit and all the other stuff that has been annoying you. We ended up, most of us strangers, holding each other’s hands and beaming like children.
Love and peace for sure – but also, she said, she was there to bring us some “joy, happiness, inspiration and positive vibrations.” And that she did for about 75 glorious minutes (too short, Mavis, but then you have just turned 79, sorry for bringing that up!).
And the joy and inspiration clearly comes from Mavis’s Christian faith – she unabashedly gave us the old blues song, Death Comes Creeping (covered by a host of artists, including Mance Lipscomb, Fred McDowell and Bob Dylan) – asking “whatcha gonna do when death comes creeping at your door?” Followed up by Far Celestial Shore, with its “jubilation, joy and exaltation when I see my lord.”
That faith is no other-worldly faith, but one that is driving for change here and now. She talked about working for justice in the 1960s, inspired by Rev Martin Luther King Jr., and about needing to continue that work, especially at the moment. “I’m thinking about going up to that White House,” she said, to the biggest cheer of the evening. Go for it Mavis!
Her five-piece band was everything you’d expect from long-time collaborators. Guitarist Rick Holmstrom treated us to a wonderful virtuosic display in a variety of styles, rewarded along the way by a fist bump from Mavis, and singers Donny Gerrard and Vicki Randel rounded out the sound, allowing Mavis to let her vocals soar with freedom.
A glorious, inspirational evening – keep going, Mavis, we love you!
Paul Thorn has just released his 13th album, Don’t Let the Devil Ride. It’s an unabashed album of gospel music, with Paul and his band, and a group of top notch collaborators including the Blind Boys of Alabama, the McCrary Sisters, Bonnie Bishop and New Orleans’ Preservation Hall Jazz Horns in scintillating form. It’s heady stuff, rockin’ gospel music with a wonderful, upbeat spirit. “This is the culmination of my whole life in music, coming back to my gospel roots,” Paul says, “I want to help lighten your load and make you smile.”
He goes on: “One of things that I take a lot of pride in is that I love everybody, and what I learned in church paid dividends. When I’m up there entertaining it’s also a glimpse of what my life has been and how gospel music has molded me into who I am.”
Who he is, is a class Americana act – great singer, guitar player and song writer with a quick sense of humour, who has shared a stage with Robert Cray, Bonnie Raitt, Sting, Jeff Beck and Huey Lewis, to name a few. But he’s also a thoroughly nice guy who’s happy to sign autographs and pose for photos with fans at his shows and who feels he owes a debt of gratitude to his mom and dad.
Down at the Crossroads was able to catch up with Paul in Savannah, Georgia, before his gig that night with the Blind Boys of Alabama.
DATC: Hi Paul. Thanks for talking to us today. We were very excited to listen to the new album – it’s been on constant play in my car over the past few days. So, congratulations on that – it really is outstanding. And it’s basically a gospel album – tell us why you wanted to make a record like this.
Paul: Well I grew up the son of a Pentecostal minister and I grew up singing to this type of music. My family are white people, but we always went to the black churches a lot and we worshipped with them, and I just love the black style of gospel music. That’s what I was drawn to and I always had it in my mind that some day I wanted to do a gospel record, and I just thought that this was the right time to pay tribute to my roots – and that’s what I did.
DATC: That’s interesting – going back to your boyhood, what was it like for white people going to a black church in Mississippi back then?
Paul: Truth be told, there were two types of churches growing up. The black people had their own church and the white people had theirs, and we each had a different style of worship. But my family would go visit the black churches and we’d worship with them, and that’s where the music got me, man. White churches did more of a country and western style – which I do like too! – but the black music really got into me, I just loved it.
DATC: There’s always been a bluesy, gospel feel to your music, Paul, hasn’t there?
Paul: That’s exactly right. I live in Tupelo Mississippi which is the birthplace of Elvis Presley, and people always ask me what my influences were and they expect me to say somebody famous. But it’s really not – my biggest influences were people nobody’s heard of, people who sang in church. You know there was a spirit to what they did; it didn’t bother me that they weren’t famous, I was being touched in my heart by the sounds I was hearing.
DATC: So, how did you go about choosing this collection of songs? They’re all old gospel songs, spirituals and others from the African American tradition. How did you pick these songs?
Paul: Well, one thing I did not want to do; I didn’t want to sing gospel songs that had been done a lot. There are a lot of great gospel songs like Amazing Grace or I’ll Fly Away – but too many people have done them, so we just dug around – listed to old records, searched the Internet, we tried to find songs that were good gospel songs, but more obscure. Some of the songs were so obscure we weren’t even able to find out who wrote them. They’re songs that have been forgotten. So that’s how we chose them, we wanted songs that weren’t as familiar.
DATC: You know, one of the songs I was listening to today, The Half Has Never Been Told – your version is terrific – but I remember as a boy singing the original 19th century Philip Bliss hymn. I haven’t heard that song for 40 odd years, so it took me back!
Paul: Yeah, I wanted these songs to be fresh for a new generation of listeners who’ve never heard these songs.
DATC: And I love the version of You Gotta Move which you’ve changed from Mississippi Fred McDowell’s slow blues into a fantastic upbeat celebration. What’s that song about and why did you give it this sort of treatment?
Paul: Well that’s a good question. I think that song can be what you want it to mean. You got to move could mean get up and dance and rejoice and feel good. It could mean stop being lazy and get up and do some work! It could mean anything. It could mean you’re fixing to die. When you say, when the Lord get ready, it could mean the grim reaper’s coming to take you out. It could mean anything – that’s what I like about it; I want the listener to make it mean what it means to them. It’s got multiple meanings and it’s a good song for that reason.
DATC: I’ve always thought of that song as a resurrection song. You know, the policeman, the woman on the street – everybody’s in the same boat, but in the last day when God moves them bones, everybody’s the same.
Paul: Yeah, exactly right, That’s a strong message. We’ll all the same – whoever you look up to the most in life, your hero, whoever that may be, you have to understand, that person is very flawed. We’re all flawed. Nobody is all good and nobody is all bad. That’s the thing I think this record also says – we’re all in it together.
DATC: That’s interesting. Because the last song, the title track Don’t Let the Devil Ride taps into that old struggle between good and evil, often played out on an individual level. Which you see in a lot of the old blues songs and in the lives of some of the old blues artists. But that’s a struggle I guess we all face.
Paul: You know the hardest thing in life is doing the right thing. It’s easy doing the wrong thing. Doing the wrong thing is fun! When I think of Don’t Let the Devil Ride I think of temptation. In my world, I guess the strongest temptation for me, and for any man, is women. Know what I mean? My grandfather used to say, when the birds of temptation fly around your head, don’t let them build a nest.
DATC: Wise advice! Well, let me ask you this, Paul – your early history in the church, as I understand it, resulted in you getting thrown out. But here you are all these years later with a lovely dedication to your father and mother on the album sleeve, and saying what you learned in church paid dividends. Tell us how that works.
Paul: Well, you know, my mom and dad, when they got married they were very young, and they started singing gospel music and pastoring churches. They spent their entire lives serving God and serving others. And one of the things I learned from my Dad that has really served me well in life – there’s a lot of people you meet in life that are only nice to certain people, they pick and choose who they’re nice to benefit themselves, but my dad wasn’t like that, he was always a champion for the underdog. And…that’s what I wanna be.
DATC: That’s a great example to have in your life, for sure. Now you recorded the album at Sam Phillips Studio and FAME studio Muscle Shoals and Preservation Hall– 3 very historic locations. Tell us about that experience.
Paul: Well we just wanted to record this authentic music in authentic studios and there’s nothing more authentic than Sam Phillips Studio in Memphis and Rick Hall’s Fame Studio in Muscle Shoals. That’s as authentic as it gets. We recorded half the album at Sam Phillips and half at Fame, and PBS filmed the making of the album, they followed us to both studios. So it’s coming out as a documentary on PBS in May. It’s gonna be a great promotional tool for the record. But we wanted to record the record somewhere that had the spirit to match the music.
DATC: Yeah. It sounds great, And the production and the sound quality on the album is excellent. And you have some wonderful collaborators on the album – the Blind Boys of Alabama, the McCrary Sisters, Bonnie Bishop and the horns. What was it like working with those guys?
Paul: Oh man, it was awesome. The Blind Boys – I love those guys, they’re pros and they know more about gospel music than I’ll ever know, because they’ve been doing it longer than I have. And I like it, because they’re old enough to call me boy! I like that!
DATC: So, they are going to join you, and the McCrary Sisters as well, on some of the dates on your tour?
Paul: Yeah, I’m doing a show with the Blind Boys tonight. We’re going to take this gospel thing as far as we can take it. It’s off to a good start. I just found out yesterday that it debuted on the Americana chart at number 12 and next week it’s gonna be in the Top 100 Billboard chart in the United States. So we’re off to a really good start.
DATC: That’s great, Paul. How does this material go down with your audience, some of whom may have no interest in gospel music faith?
Paul: Well so far it’s gone over great. ‘Cause all of my fans that know me know that I grew up singing gospel music. And believe it or not, for years my fans have been asking me to cut a gospel record. You know, whether you’re a believer or not, the music is great. And when I go on stage, I’m not a preacher – I’m an entertainer. But I am sincere when I sing this music. And the fans love it! I haven’t heard one person say, why’d you do a gospel record? Actually they’ve all said, man, this is what we’ve been waiting on. So everybody wins!
DATC: The album is great, you’ve done a fantastic job. I wish you well for tonight and for all the rest of the tour. Paul, thanks very much.
Mandy Brooks very fine album, Move On Up!, got considered for nomination for this year’s Grammys. Quite an achievement for a debut album. Daughter of a professional singer, Mandy has been performing with various bands since she was a teenager, including the Jimmy Scott Band. She’s recently formed a new band with Levi Lloyd, The Brooks Lloyd Band, one to watch out for. Down at the Crossroads chatted to Mandy about Move On Up!
DATC: Mandy, congratulations on your very fine Move On Up! album. It’s an album of mostly gospel songs with a distinctive bluesy feel to it. Tell us a bit about the background to the album and what you were trying to achieve?
Mandy: Thank you Gary! I love digging around in your “Down at the Crossroads” blog. It’s gold mine for reference and resource of Gospel Blues. I am honored to be on “Best Blues Album 2017” list!
As far as what I was trying to achieve with the Move on Up album, I had put music on the back burner for about 15 years. I’m not sure if I put it on the back burner or it was just part of my process/musical journey. Even though I was not very musically active during that time, there was a lot of personal development and discovery going on that I think was naturally integrated into the creative process and expression.
One day my son said “Mom, I found these recordings of you singing and you are a good singer.” “If you had a dream what would it be?” I said “I would make a CD.” And he said “You should do it”. So, my husband generously agreed to support it. He told me he was excited to help me create something that I could have as a keepsake and play for my grandkids.
But in the back of my mind I knew there was a lot more down in inside of me. I knew creating the CD would be just like opening a door to grow, connect with others and move on up in my circumstances. My logo is a mockingbird taking flight. That logo is very powerful imagery for me to keep strong and moving up.
Knowing that I had one shot at creating an album, I wanted to really make it count for something. I wanted express my faith in this album but not in a way that was preachy. I just wanted to express my faith in the context of revealing my views and my inner workings and create something that would hopefully bring people joy and encouragement.
DATC: You’ve done a really nice version of Bob Dylan’s Pressing On – very timely, given the release of his latest Bootleg Series, Trouble No More. Why did you choose this song?
Mandy: Music has been for me always a place, a physical space to go to. When I go there I feel surrounded, understood and protected. I feel like I have the freedom to express whatever emotion is going on for me and there is no judgment. So, Pressing On for me is a song that I could sing in that space that gives me strength to keep moving forward through difficult circumstances to a higher calling and bigger reason. If I can press on then maybe someone else could be encouraged and feel like “She’s doing it, I can do it too.”
DATC: And you’ve a Blind Willie Johnson song and a Mississippi Fred McDowell song on the album too. Do you relate to these old blues masters?
Mandy: Even though these masters are of a different gender, race and generation I find them very relatable. I think it’s the music that helps create bridges across these differences. They are singing about their struggles. They are down to earth and unpretentious. They are singing to keep their faith alive and share their experiences, because there is healing and connection in expressing. And so yeah, I can relate to them.
DATC: Why do you think there is an enduring quality to the blues?
Mandy: Well the blues is the basis for almost all of American music over the past 100 years because it is relatable. It’s an expression of calling out from suffering. I think a lot of times people don’t give each other or themselves permission to express, so in the blues gives a place for this. I think another enduring quality is that the blues is profound in its simplicity.
Blind Willie Johnson
DATC: And what about gospel blues – why do you think people still want to listen to Blind Willie Johnson and Rev Robert Wilkins and Rev Gary Davis and others like them, even though they are quite forthright with their gospel lyrics?
Mandy: Well, I think whether they believe intellectually or not with the words, that listeners resonate with the truth of the experience that is coming through their expression. That truth expressed is bringing the listener some kind of satisfaction and making a connection.
DATC: When you say that you “desire to sing the truth,” what do you mean by that?
Mandy: I desire to sing the truth on many levels. I want to sing what is true to my experience. I enjoy singing for fun, but I don’t feel like I’m really singing if I’m not expressing the truth of what is going on inside of me. That could be the truth of my faith in my Saviour and it could be the truth of a really painful relationship I could be going through or the joy of just having a great time and letting go of troubles. You know, being authentic. I desire to be and give something authentic and to sing the truth or I feel like I’m not really giving anything of substance.
DATC: You’ve said, that “touching joy and pain through music brings a sweet freedom and healing.” Can you say a bit more about that?
Mandy: I’ve heard that in the West African Mandekan language there is a term, yere-wolo, that means, “to give birth to oneself.” I feel that this album has been the starting point of that for me. That I am coming back full circle.
I have been reborn for many years as a Christian, but this rebirth is taking place inside that context. I feel like for many years I did not have something to express and then it was like all at once I knew it was time. It has been an awakening for me and the vehicle for that is music. I feel like I am going back to my beginning and collecting all the experiences and giving birth to myself in this way.
Touching that joy and pain, as difficult as it is sometimes, keeps me alive and constantly discovering myself. Through discovering myself, I feel like I am able to Move on Up through my circumstances and hopefully encourage other to do the same.
You know I know how it feels to be held down and feel like there is no way. I know what it feels like to not have a voice so I want others to know that they are not alone in feeling like that as well. I want to share that through faith and relationship with God that he gives us the strength to “Press on” and “Move on Up.” I mean to say that I haven’t “arrived” anywhere. As much as I want to support and encourage others, I need the support, encouragement and relationship with others to keep pressing on and moving up.
Thank you for having me and for your support. I wish you the best with your work. I look forward to hearing updates from “Down at the Crossroads” in 2018!
Volume 13 in Bob Dylan’s Bootleg Series has just been released, Trouble No More, covering the so-called “gospel years” of 1979-1981. There’s a two CD pack with 30 songs, including a couple never before released, and then a whopping 8 CD + DVD offering which, at over £135, I’m afraid priced me out. I might have a friend who can help me out though!
Dylan’s three “gospel” albums from the period were widely pilloried at the time, but the release of this material, all recorded live from concerts in the United States and Europe, has shown what anybody who attended these gigs at the time knew – the performances were nothing short of electrifying. I went to my first Dylan concert on July 1, 1981 at Earl’s Court, London, which was kicked off by four tambourine swinging female gospel singers, Regina McCrary, Carolyn Dennis, Clydie King and Madelyn Quebec, before Bob weighed in with Gotta Serve Somebody. By this stage, Dylan was beginning to mix in some of the old songs with the gospel material, so it wasn’t long before the whole place was erupting to Like A Rolling Stone. I was in Bob heaven with the set list that night, but it was the energy and conviction of the performances that pulsated through the arena that stayed with me long after the final chords of Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door had died away.
Rolling Stone, never a fan of Dylan’s gospel material, admitted of Trouble No More, “What’s often lost in those arguments is that it produced some of his greatest concerts,” while the Times of London grudgingly confessed that “the two-disc version is ample proof that Dylan finding God was, in musical terms at least, no bad thing.” The New York Times understood better what went on: “What comes through these recording is Mr. Dylan’s unmistakable fervor…[the songs are] “anything but routine…Mr. Dylan flings every line with conviction.” Dylan scholar Clinton Heylin says simply, “Like the mid-1960s, he was at the absolute peak of his powers.”
This was a prolific period. More than a dozen songs that didn’t make it onto the three albums from 1979 to 1981 show up in Trouble in Mind. The body of work composed by Dylan during this time “more than matches any commensurate era in his long and distinguished career – or, indeed that of any other twentieth century popular artist,” says Heylin, and it’s hard to disagree.
The song performances are in turns exhilarating, rowdy, playful, and combative, combined with moments of prayerlike reverence. It’s hard not to be moved by What Can I Do for You, from San Diego’s 27 November 1979 performance. This was a centrepiece of Dylan’s performances in these concerts and his passion and sense of gratitude is undeniable. The gospel backing and the mournful harmonica adds to the poignancy. “You have given all there is to give; what can I give to you?” Dylan’s sense of indebtedness oozes from the song. My wife and I were listening to this song the other day in the car. She doesn’t really like most of the music I listen too – she’s more of a classical music fan. But she suddenly said, “He’s really a fantastic singer, isn’t he?” The character of Dylan’s voice will always, I guess, be something of an acquired taste, but he is indeed a very fine singer, able to phrase a song exquisitely, and, as he does on this one, wring the emotion out of it.
What I found interesting listening to these performances is how much they are blues songs. Gospel blues, yes – but nothing wrong with that – we have a long line of such songs from Blind Willie Johnson and Rev. Robert Wilkins onwards. Slow Train, Gotta Serve Somebody, When You Gonna Wake Up, Do Right to Me Baby, Are You Ready and Dead Man, Dead Man are all served up in a heady mixture of the blues, rock and gospel. There’s something about the blues, when it’s played right that just manages to get right inside you and touch you deeply. And that’s what’s going on here with these songs – aside, of course from the deeply felt lyrics.
And then there is the very solid blues rock of The Groom’s Still Waiting at the Altar. The November 13, 1980 performance of this from San Francisco features Carlos Santana on guitar with a couple of blistering solos and Dylan as intense as you’re likely to hear him. The song is not on my vinyl version of Shot of Love, but was eventually added to the CD version.
The Groom’s lyrics are not anywhere near as explicit in Christian meaning as most of the other songs, which speak clearly of God, Jesus, the need for faith, repentance and Christ’s second coming. Here Dylan seems to be in enigmatic prophet mode, speaking of a world of chaos, madness, war and misunderstanding. But remember, this is a period where Dylan has steeped himself in the scriptures, and with his prodigious memory, all this theology and apocalyptic imagery is still swirling around his head. The talk of the groom, the implied bride and waiting at the altar seems to me has to refer to Christ and his bride, the church, straight from the pages of the Revelation of St. John. The stage, says Dylan, is burning and the curtain is rising on the new age, but we’re not quite there yet – the groom (Christ) is still waiting at the altar for his bride (Christ-followers) to be welcomed to the new age. For now, there is chaos, massacres of innocents, enough to nauseate you. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
The song is a powerful one – “a fiery piece of molten fury” [album liner notes] and the repetitive blues riff drives home the prophet’s urgent message. Before anyone gets too dismissive of this apocalyptic thread in Dylan’s songs, here and elsewhere, let’s realize that, like it or not, the idea of a second coming of Jesus has been part of orthodox Christianity for the last two thousand years. Yes, recently some Christians have got a bit confused about the idea of heaven as a golden city in the skies and about expecting a so-called “rapture,” but Christians have always hoped for a new world forged out of the old, where peace, love and justice would prevail. And that idea comes through loud and clear in, for example, When He Returns: “Like a thief in the night, he’ll replace wrong with right, When he returns… Will I ever learn that there’ll be no peace, that the war won’t cease, Until He returns?”
Dylan gives us, as the New York Times put it, “a sense of moral gravity, a righteous tone, apocalyptic thoughts and a delight in the rich and powerful receiving their come-uppance.”
The important thing for Christians is to live now as if that new age mentioned in The Groom’s Still Waiting At the Altar had already arrived – peaceably, loving neighbours and enemies alike, and seeking justice for all. That’s the answer to Dylan’s question, What Can I Do For You?
Racism is evil. That’s always been our stance at Down at the Crossroads. Anyone who knows anything about the blues knows that the blues grew up in the iniquity of the Jim Crow era in the United States and were a visceral response to the suffering and afflictions of the black community. Skip James’s Hard Time Killin’ Floor Blues captures the grim reality of the time for his community:
“Hard times is here
An’ everywhere you go,
Times are harder than ever been before.”
Leadbelly’s 1930 Jim Crow bemoaned the social situation he was in and pleaded, “Please get together, break up this old Jim Crow.” In Bourgeois Blues, he takes issue with the idea of America being the “land of the free” and “home of the brave” – for Leadbelly, it was somewhere he was “mistreated” by the “bourgeoisie.”
And Josh White’s Trouble in 1940 says bluntly, “Well, I always been in trouble, ‘cause I’m a black-skinned man.” All he could expect from life was “Trouble, trouble, ever since I was born.”
Despite the gains made since those days, racism has patently not gone away, and it’s been heartening to hear some of today’s artists putting it firmly in their sights. Luther Dickinson of the North Mississippi Allstars takes a look at the current state of race in his country in Pray for Peace, and wonders just what is going on:
“I think our grandmothers would be broken hearted
To see their children’s children right back where we started…
Makes me want to holler, makes me want to moan.”
Other artists have recently echoed this theme: Jason Isbell in White Man’s World confronts the privileges and disadvantages inherent in American society because of race, and his own complicity in it:
“I’m a white man looking in a black man’s eyes
Wishing I’d never been one of the guys
Who pretended not to hear another white man’s joke.”
For a good summary of the problems of race in the US, check out Nicholas Kristof’s series of articles in the New York Times, entitled “When Whites Just Don’t Get It.” Outside of the evident problem of the shootings of unarmed blacks by law enforcement and the problems in the criminal justice system (just read Bryan Stevenson’s Just Mercy to understand more about this), Kristof points out that “overwhelming research show[s] that blacks are more likely to be suspended from preschool, to be prosecuted for drug use, to receive longer sentences, to be discriminated against in housing, to be denied job interviews, to be rejected by doctors’ offices, to suffer bias in almost every measurable sector of daily life.” The statistics tell their own story – and yet around 50% of white Americans today say that discrimination against whites is as big a problem as discrimination against blacks.
Which narrative feeds the hate and vileness spewing from the neo-Nazis and white supremacists who turned up in force last weekend in Charlottesville. And whose views and actions are given succour by the reaction of the American president. White separatist David Duke declared that this show of unity by the alt-right “fulfils the promises of Donald Trump.” The statements by Trump since Charlottesville have been quite simply shocking. Despite a half hearted attempt to condemn racism, he has doggedly held on to his narrative of “many sides” being responsible, thus effectively equating out and out hated-filled racism with protest, and lamented the removal of the “beautiful” statues and monuments that celebrate and glorify the defence of slavery – structures that for the most part were erected long after the civil war to bolster the Jim Crow system and opposed the Civil Rights movement.
“Such an ungainly assembly of white supremacists rides herd on political memory. Their resentment of the removal of public symbols of the Confederate past — the genesis of this weekend’s rally — is fueled by revisionist history. They fancy themselves the victims of the so-called politically correct assault on American democracy, a false narrative that helped propel Mr. Trump to victory. Each feeds on the same demented lies about race and justice that corrupt true democracy and erode real liberty. Together they constitute the repulsive resurgence of a virulent bigotocracy.
This bigotocracy overlooks fundamental facts about slavery in this country: that blacks were stolen from their African homeland to toil for no wages in American dirt. When black folk and others point that out, white bigots are aggrieved. They are especially offended when it is argued that slavery changed clothes during Reconstruction and got dressed up as freedom, only to keep menacing black folk as it did during Jim Crow. The bigotocracy is angry that slavery is seen as this nation’s original sin. And yet they remain depressingly and purposefully ignorant of what slavery was, how it happened, what it did to us, how it shaped race and the air and space between white and black folk, and the life and arc of white and black cultures.”
We’re grateful for the music artists that are prepared to stand firmly against all of this. Wilco, for example, has just released a song in the wake of last weekend’s unrest. It’s called All Lives, You Say and takes on the “All Lives Matter” slogan which seeks to protest the Black Lives Matter movement.
“I can see you are afraid
Your skin is so thin
Your heart has escaped
All lives, all lives you say
…But you don’t know how to sing anything anyway
So all lives, all lives you say”
We can applaud too the broad coalition of local faith leaders called the Charlottesville Clergy Collective who resisted the racism in their town last weekend. “I’m trying to lead a church whose Christian identity leads my members to their politics, and not to have their politics lead them to the church,” said Rev. William Peyton, Rector of St. Paul’s Memorial Church, a mostly white Episcopalian congregation.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice
They are reflecting the God revealed in the Bible as one who “loves justice” and cares for the poor and oppressed. Just read the Psalms and the Hebrew prophets if you’ve any doubt about that. Jesus declared those blessed who sought after justice and peace. The apostle Paul said that a key component of the gospel for him and the other Christian leaders was “remembering the poor,” and that the kingdom of God consisted of “justice, peace and joy.” He also said that equality in Christ trumped all human divisions.
As Buddy Guy says in Skin Deep, “Skin Deep, Skin Deep, Underneath we’re all the same.”
That being the case, “We all gotta be careful, how we treat one another.” And Josh White in Free and Equal Blues: “Every man, everywhere is the same, when he’s got his skin off…That’s the free and equal blues!”
To quote Nicholas Kristof again: “A starting point is for us whites to wake from our ongoing mass delusions, to recognize that in practice black lives have not mattered as much as white lives, and that this is an affront to values that we all profess to believe in.”
Kenny Meeks makes great bluesy sounding Americana music. He has worked extensively alongside artists such as Sixpence None the Richer, Buddy and Julie Miller, and Al Perkins, and has four albums to his credit over the past 12 years or so. He’s a great guitarist and gritty singer – and an accomplished songwriter. His new album, New Jerusalem, which we had in our Best Americana list for 2016 is a very fine collection of original songs, all with a gospel flavour. Down at the Crossroads has the opportunity to talk to Kenny recently, and he was gracious enough to be very open and honest in response to our questions –
DATC: Kenny, congratulations on the new album, New Jerusalem. It’s great – chock full of very cool bluesy Americana songs, with unmistakable gospel content. Tell us a bit about how the album took shape.
Kenny: Thank you very much Gary. What got these songs flowing, and this record, was the suicide of an elderly neighbour who was a bit of a grandfather-figure to our kids (especially my boys) – which impacted our family deeply. Also, the sadness of the sudden death of my brother Paul was pretty rough.
These events stirred something in me that became a response to suffering, pain, and isolation. As I began writing songs, a little bit of my history came out. I wrote all but one of these songs through this season of grief and reflection. Also, it’s a bit of a legacy record for my progeny……a peek into my soul and my story. I’m not sure I’ll ever make another record this personal again. It’s not just about those topics, but that’s what got things going.
DATC: Tell us about the title track, New Jerusalem – what is that all about?
Kenny: It’s about the afterlife. I do believe in it, in a biblical way. I wanted to sing about it. I wanted the song to be a celebration and a proclamation. It’s also about a vision of greater unity among followers of Jesus. The absence of schisms, and unity, in Heaven. It’s for me as much as for the listener.
DATC:Mercy Pays the Toll is an interesting song. It talks about “when pain moves in to stay,” and “when this world wears us down…and leaves us tired and sore.” It sounds like there’s some personal experience in there. You ask the question – “how do we live?” What’s the answer, in your experience?
Kenny: This song is in response to the pain I was seeing around me. I’ve certainly had – and caused – my share. But people live with chronic pain, chronic poverty, chronic sadness, post-traumatic stress, or mental impairment. I don’t think I necessarily ask the question looking for an answer. I think the question is meant to be a meditation. How can we share burdens of others? Some so heavy, they think their only way out might be to take their own life?
But, I think the answer is to always love. If only love could be my default response to every situation….. and when it isn’t, we have mercy. Maybe “How Do We Love” would have been better said?
DATC: There’s a bluesy feel to your music, but it’s never downbeat. How have the blues as a genre influenced you and your music?
Kenny: Maybe the blues has been misunderstood as a sad genre. It’s not. I mean, life is sad, and the blues are certainly about life. But, I hear a lot of joy in blues music. But…there is the presence of a yearning in all music, and certainly in the blues. So, I think you’re right in a sense.
I read in a Time article about Delta music history, that lyrics like ‘I’m gonna leave you baby’ were sharecroppers speaking in code that they were going to leave their landowner for a better deal. That was the author’s take. Dunno if there’s any truth to it. But, allegory has always been very present in African American oral tradition and music.
American blues music shaped me early, through a trip to a family farm in Horse Cave Kentucky, where I wandered to the sharecropper home next door. I was real little. The neighbour was on the front porch, playing a dimestore electric guitar through a little amp with a jack-knife slide. That’s where they found me, slack-jawed, standing in front of that porch. This instantly became the music to which I would compare all other. It’s still in my mind like it happened yesterday.
I also really liked Dixieland music as a 9-year old trumpet player. My dad took me to meet Al Hirt at a record store. But, when I bought my first guitar with paper route money at 12, it would most certainly be manipulated with a jack-knife slide. When my mother passed away that same year, the blues became important to me. But, beyond sadness, maybe yearning? Some folks equate tempo with …you know – fast = happy, slow = sad. Man, the slower the better for me. And sometimes the real slow stuff is downright joyous!
DATC: How come the blues, with some of its associations with the crossroads and the devil and so on, can be a vehicle for gospel music?
Kenny: As for the ‘deal with the devil’ I kinda see the “Crossroads” legend, as we know it, as a deal for fortune and fame, not specific to the blues. I’m fairly certain the music we consider to be the genre called the blues was uniquely born from the music of the African American slave population in America. And if their spiritual music wasn’t the birth mother, it certainly was the midwife. So, I think the blues have more kinship with the music of the African-American church than any other genre. It seems really natural to me, in an organic kind of way. I’m not fond of obvious “repurposed” blues-Gospel music. But Rev. Gary Davis …man… that is the absolute loveliest stuff ever!
DATC: Who are the blues and other artists that have influenced you most, either musically or lyrically?
Kenny: Robert Johnson. Ray Charles (my desert island artist…just Ray…all I need…ha!) I love John Lee Hooker. I love Taj Mahal. Jimi Hendrix. Aretha Franklin. Ralph Stanley. Leon Russell. Grant Green. Les McCann and Oscar Peterson. Bob Dylan. John Prine. Rev. Gary Davis. And Duane Allman. I could go on and on (laugh). If you go back, listen to some of Robert Randolph’s mentors in the Sacred Steel tradition…oh boy. I know I’m forgetting some real important musicians that have influenced me, sorry!
DATC: Tell us a bit about yourself, Kenny – first of all, your website mentions your “migratory childhood, and blue-collar upbringing.” Explain that and how that plays into your art.
Kenny: We moved to Dearborn Michigan from Henderson Kentucky when I was 7. It was like a foreign country. So, exile, longing for the familiar surroundings of home. And the music I was hearing through this time kinda changed from country music to Motown, plus British invasion stuff and psychedelia. So the migration to Detroit brought lots of new music into my world. The blue-collar aspect is simply that my dad was a working guy. He was a brilliant mechanic, and he could fix stuff that other guys in the shop couldn’t figure out. I miss him. [Kenny’s father Alvis passed away in 1992].
DATC: You’ve been performing and writing songs for nearly 30 years – how has your music and career evolved over that time?
Kenny: Thanks!…Actually, about 40, but who’s counting? (laughs) Ummmm, pretty much same ol’ Kenny (laughs). I’m trying to learn how to learn better. And learning how to unlearn stuff I’m supposed to forget! I try to make honest music; hopefully that comes through. I think my songwriting has improved a bit. And, I learn from my kids and all the younger people I work with.
And, I’ve always really loved playing with other artists too. That hasn’t changed. I have made music with insanely talented people. Pretty humbling. If I started naming them…well, I’d leave out someone. But you know, it’s very humbling. As for my artist career, I mean, my friends know I always say “why would someone come to see me when they could stay home and listen to a Ray Charles record?” These days I sometimes play guitar for a very special lady named Sandra McCracken, whose music just takes your breath away. We’re going to play with Liz Vice next week. I’m really looking forward to that.
DATC: How do you find audiences at your shows react to the gospel feel of your songs – people, perhaps, who don’t share that faith?
Kenny: Very positive response, not unlike, maybe…a Mavis Staples audience? I think my music is non-confrontational, so the listener isn’t ‘put on the spot’. I never ‘preach’ with lyrics. Proclamation is kind of a good Gospel music method (and I guess that is a kind of preaching). Not all my music is Gospel music, but I think a song like Jesus Knows communicates that He is tuned in to you even if you’re not tuned into Him, you know?…and that’s ok. I just want my songs to make the listener feel welcome. Does that make sense? The important thing about Gospel music is to express that God loves us completely. We ARE loved. Just as we are. Nothing we could ever do could make God love us more. And there is nothing we could ever do to make God love us less. That is the grace of God.
DATC: Are your touring the album at the minute, and where will that take you over the next few months?
Kenny: I don’t have any shows coming up, but thanks for asking. I’d love to play some in the UK. I go where I’m invited, and that’s always such a pleasure. And it has been a pleasure speaking with you Gary. Thanks so much for your interest in my music. God bless you and yours.
God Don’t Never Change: The Songs of Blind Willie Johnson has earned plaudits from all quarters and Grammy Award nominations for Best Roots Gospel Album and Best American Roots Performance for the Blind Boys of Alabama recording of Mother’s Children Have a Hard Time. The album was produced by Jeffrey Gaskill of Burning Rose Productions. The album features a star studded cast which includes Tom Waits, Lucinda William, Derek and Susan Trucks, Luther Dickinson and the Cowboy Junkies. Down at the Crossroads chatted with Jeffrey Gaskill to find out more about how the album came about:
DATC: First of all Jeffrey – congratulations on God Don’t Never Change. It’s a wonderful record; it’s been very widely acclaimed; it’s had two Grammy nominations. That’s no doubt been very pleasing for you – but have you been surprised at just how well it’s gone down?
Jeffrey Gaskill with Lucinda Williams
Jeffrey: I guess I’m not so surprised. I’m grateful for the Grammy nominations – I was hopeful they would come. But I like the fact that it’s gotten great reviews. These are uncertain times – everything’s uncertain, the music business is uncertain, you can’t take anything for granted. But, yes, I’m pleased with the nominations.
DATC: One writer said that your guidance resulted in “Eleven stirring renditions which replicate the soul of the songs, not just the sounds.” Presumably that was what you were striving for?
Jeffrey: Yeah, that was exactly it. Exactly. You know, just going for the heart of the song, and what Willie Johnson was saying at that time. Just bringing it up to contemporary times. And bringing artists together who can convey the song, convey the thought. Really, you know, it’s the thought in the song behind the music that matters the most.
DATC: So why did you want to do an album of Willie Johnson songs?
Jeffrey: Well I wanted to do it way back in 2003, after my Dylan project, Gotta Serve Somebody: The Gospel Songs of Bob Dylan came out. But you know, I had to give some things a rest after that and it was hard to find a label that was willing to go to bat for the project on paper before it was recorded. This was at the time the record industry was collapsing.
DATC: So what is it about Willie Johnson’s music that really appealed to you, that made you want to do this album?
Jeffrey: I think it’s the sense of permanence – and I think it’s the same thing with Dylan’s music – these are themes that everyone needs to think about in their lifetime, no matter when in the spectrum of time they’re living their life – it’s really timeless, enduring music. It’s not something to be sung today and forgotten about tomorrow.
DATC: And that’s the thing about his music – it really has endured over the years. It’s been covered by so many artists, in so many ways over the years. There’s something about it that seems to appeal to people in different eras, perhaps coming from different genres of music.
Jeffrey: Yeah, his music can be interpreted in any number of styles, so seminal is it. He himself, we might say, is hidden in plain sight, to the extent that most everybody is familiar with at least one or two of his songs, if not all of them. Although maybe not familiar with him as an artist.
DATC: The interesting thing, Jeffrey, is that Johnson’s music is quite unashamedly Christian; it springs right out of his vibrant faith. How come people still have an appetite for it, and how come artists who may have no particular interest in faith want to cover his songs and find his songs compelling?
Jeffrey: Well, of course some people only see Blind Willie Johnson as a blues artist, with those universal themes. It takes perhaps a little bit more understanding and appreciation of the lyrics and what he’s getting at to really fully realize him as a gospel artist, which he truly is. But he can be taken either way I guess.
DATC: Can you tell us a bit about the process of making this album, Jeffrey? From what you’ve said I gather it was a long time in the making?
Jeffrey: Labels loved the concept of the album and the artists who were interested in recording, but the budget and the financial end just wasn’t feasible while the industry was collapsing. So inevitably I wound up raising the funds through a kick starter campaign. I was grateful for kick starter, but it’s not really in my nature to want to go out and do things like that. But, you know, when your back’s against the wall, and you want to get something done like that, you’ll do what needs to be done. And then the thought came to me about his dilapidated home in Marlin in Texas that I had visited, and what could be done about the wood from it, and through some extraordinary generosity, a woman down there whom I had befriended was able to secure some wood from the house before it was demolished. And that became the Blind Pilgrim Collection – the cigar box guitars.
[Wood that had fallen free from the dilapidated house where Johnson lived with his wife and singing partner Willie B. Harris in Marlin was delivered to the capable hands of George Brin at String Tinkers in Putnam, CT. He carefully cleaned up this old Southern Yellow Pine and painstakingly hand-made ten magnificent finger-jointed boxes book-matched front and back to create these cigar box guitars.]
DATC: And there were some guitar picks as well weren’t there? I’m kinda kicking myself – I wish I’d tried to get one of those picks!
Jeffery: Well, they were made from the same wood that the guitars were made from. I said, “do you have any scraps left?” and in fact there were three very small pieces of wood left, and so I sent them out to a fabulous pick maker out in California, and he was able to get a hundred picks out of that wood. [Chris Brossard Picks (www.brossardpicks.com)]
DATC: Wonderful. So how did you go about recruiting the artists – I mean it’s a fantastic cast on the album, and all the performances are very, very strong. So how did you go about recruiting them, Jeffrey?
Jeffrey: Well, just sending letters to management, saying, hey, I’m Jeff and I made a record called Gotta Serve Somebody: The Gospel Songs of Bob Dylan, and I’m working on this Blind Willie Johnson project, and here’s a song, and I wonder if you’d consider singing it?
One artist we tried, an Irish one other than Sinead O’Connor, was Van Morrison, but we never heard back from him. That would’ve been nice.
DATC: So you suggested songs for particular artists, rather than artists choosing?
Jeffrey: In most cases yes. With some exceptions – like for Sinead O’Connor, I think I gave her different suggestions up front and then she came back and said she wanted to do a different couple of songs. But then I gave her Trouble Will Soon be Over. So that took a little bit of back and forth. But I think we landed on the right one.
DATC: You sure did! It’s probably the surprise of the album, but it’s really fabulous. I wouldn’t have thought of Sinead O’Connor doing a song on an album like this. But she really nails that one, doesn’t she?
Jeffrey: Yeah, she totally nails it. And when I heard that, it really surpassed any expectations I had for the record. That and the Cowboy Junkies. I’m proud of all the tracks – they’re all great – but I really feel like, Sinead O’Connor and the Cowboy Junkies take it to another level, to a real contemporary sound, and show the relevancy of the words and of Blind Willie Johnson’s music. And these are the sort of songs that can be played on the radio, you know, anywhere, anytime.
DATC: What do you think the songs of Willie Johnson have to say to the modern world? We’re going back a long time to a particular social context, to an individual in very difficult circumstances, singing songs about faith – what can these songs say to the modern world?
Jeffrey: Well I like to think that the world is an improved place since his time. But I would think Willie Johnson would think that the lessons from his songs are still relevant. I would hope there is less desperation now than there was back then, and that there would be more empathy and understanding.
DATC: Have you another project in mind, Jeffrey, or do you just want the let the dust settle a bit on this on at the moment?
Jeffrey: Yeah, maybe let the dust settle for now. I do have another project in mind, it’s more of a audio museum exhibit of shaker music. I’m from New England and this music comes from the area in which I live. It’s got real historic importance.
DATC: Sounds like a great project. Thank you Jeffrey. Again – congratulations on the album our best wishes for the Grammys.
