Chris Smither on getting older, getting wiser and where in the world he feels happiest.

“Smither is an American original – a product of the musical melting pot and one of the absolute best singer-songwriters in the world.” (Associated Press)

Chris Smither has had a performing and recording career for nigh on fifty years and has just released his 18^th album, Call Me Lucky. It’s a terrific piece of work showcasing his skill and experience as a bluesman, guitarist and songwriter.

His songs have been covered along the way by artists like Bonnie Raitt, Diana Krall, Emmylou Harris and John Mayall, and he’s renowned for his rhythmic acoustic fingerpicking guitar. Long-time producer David Goodrich worked on the album with Smither, along with Billy Conway, Matt Lorenz, Keith Gary and Mike Meadows, to create a fine, bluesy album of Americana that features eight Chris Smither originals and a three nicely conceived, but surprising covers. It’s effectively a double album, the second CD consisting of a cover of the Beatles’ She Said, She Said and a reworking of five of the songs on the first.

As you’d expect on a Chris Smither album, the lyrics are sharp and laced with wry humour, without ever being cynical, the new songs demonstrating once again the importance of Chris Smither as a songwriter and artist.

Chris is touring with this album throughout the US and UK through until the Spring of next year. Be sure and catch a show! Down at the Crossroads chatted to him about the album:

DATC: Chris, Tell us about the idea behind the album, is there an overall thrust or theme of the album? And maybe a bit about making the album.

CS: At some point along the line I decided it’s time to make a new record and that means I need to write some new songs. Because I don’t write all the time, I write for specific projects. Having said that, of course, most of the songs are written within a nine months period and that usually means that they are thematically related, because they’re about what I’ve been thinking about lately. They tend to resemble themselves in some respects, but there’s no intentional feeling to the entire thing. If you’re looking for a theme, I’d say the idea behind the record is to get a new record out! [laughs]

The making of the record itself was what has become very standard for me…my producer makes suggestions…he has insights into what’s going on with me that I don’t even have yet. And at one of our meetings – we’d usually get together for a couple of days at a time – we started talking about covers, and he wanted to know if I wanted to do any covers of other people’s songs on this record. And I said well, I haven’t thought about it.

But then we were also having a conversation about Chuck Berry, who at the time was still alive – not for long unfortunately – and he had just turned 90 and made a new record. And we were wondering what Chuck Berry sounded like at 90! And then Goody [David Goodrich] says, hey, play Maybelline in a minor key – see if that sounds like a 90 year old! [laughs] So we started fooling around with it and we said, oh man we gotta do this. Because it changed the song so dramatically.

DATC: Yes, it’s fantastic. It’s like a new song…it’s like a Chris Smither song!

CS: Yes I know! And that kind of sums up this whole subject of covers. We had this on-going conversation about cover songs, and when we were down in Texas working on the record – those guys I was working with, well they stayed up a lot later than I do! I’m an old man, I go to bed at like, 11 or 12 o’clock, but they’re studio rats, they stay up until 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning. And they started playing around with stuff that we had just recorded. They’d take a song we had just recorded and totally re-imagine it, the whole arrangement. I remember the first one they did, it was the punk version of Down to the South and I walked in the next morning and they said, hey listen to this, do you think you could sing to this?! And I said, yeah, I’ll give it a shot. And it was just a goof, just playing around. And so I did it, and the next night they did another one. And I walked in the next morning and they said, sing this, this is a slow version of a fast song. So we started playing around with it and by the time we had about three of them, we thought, you know this sounds pretty good, we should just include this with the record.

DATC: So these are the alternative versions on the second CD?

CS: Yeah, those are all the alternative versions. It was just sort of playing around in the studio and then saying, hey this is interesting, we should let people hear this.. And then the only song on that disk that isn’t mine is the Beatles’ She said, She said. I had learned the song when I was asked to participate in a John Lennon tribute concert about 3 years ago, and I started working on that arrangement of the song. But then I had to cancel, because I had to have a heart operation, so I never got a chance to play it! And I was fooling around with it one afternoon in the studio and Goody said, What is that? And I said, She Said, She Said, and then Matt Lorenz [The Suitcase Junkett] started in on some harmonies, and we said, yes, we should do this, we should record this.

DATC: That’s interesting, Chris. Of course, you’ve a long history as an interpreter of songs. You’re not afraid to take on classic songs that are very familiar to people. When you decide on a song you’re going to cover, how do you go about that process of re-interpretation, of putting your own stamp on it?

CS: You know, I don’t really think about it that much. First of all, I don’t really think about covering a song unless I’m really familiar with it, where I’ve listened to it a hundred times at least. So basically, I just sit down and start playing around on the guitar, and I don’t ever go back to the original. I want to depend on my own memory of what it was like, because that’ll tell me what it was about the song that impressed me the most.

DATC: With something like Dylan’s Desolation Row, of course, it was probably very difficult to get the original out of your head!

CS: It was, but, you know, even on Dylan songs, when I hear them, I tend to sing harmonies along with them, and more or less the way I think it should go [laughs], and so basically, what happens is what I remember is my own harmony of it, as opposed to the way he does it.

And when you talk about covering Dylan, when I did Visions of Johanna, that whole tune – I do it in 3/4, instead of 4/4 – because that’s just the way I hear it. All the significant lines in that song make for a perfect waltz time – it’s actually 6/8.

DATC: I read in Acoustic Guitar Magazine that they said the album was about the big things – life, love, loss. And I’ve listened to it a lot over the past week or so, and as I’ve listened to it, I get the sense that a lot of it is about just getting older, considering the ups and downs of life, distilling a bit of wisdom that comes with age. Is that about right?

CS: I think you’re right! [laughs] Yeah, I would agree with that! I can’t help it – I’m almost 74, and you start thinking about things, you know? You’re starting to get towards the end and it occupies an increasingly large share of your thoughts. So it’s maybe not surprising that that is what comes out.

DATC: Yes, in Too Bad So Sad, there are a number of lines about this process of getting older, but I love the bit where you’re kind of complaining – “yes I have taken all my meds!” I can relate to that!

I read your essay on turning 60 that you wrote a few years ago for a book on that subject. I’ve not long passed that milestone myself and it seemed like a terrible thing to happen to me, so I thought there might be a bit of wisdom in there! I’m trying to be a bit more philosophical about it now! And one of the things you said was, “I’ve got less energy than I once did, but more than a lot of people half my age” – which I thought was a good attitude. Is that still the case for you, Chris?

CS: Yeah, I think so. People find it hard to believe I’m as old as I am. Of course, when they get close, they realize! But for some reason I haven’t turned grey yet. And that’s the thing that fools people the most! They think, he can’t be that old! And you know, I keep moving – I take good care of myself, I get a lot of exercise and I’m doing well.

DATC: Chris, you’ve had a 50-year career – what keeps you going as an artist, especially the touring, which presumably doesn’t get any easier?

CS: In some ways it doesn’t get easier, but in some ways it is easier, because I can afford nicer accommodation! It’s not too bad. I have slowed down some – I’m doing just under 100 shows a year these days, which is half what I was doing at my peak. But to tell you the truth, I would go crazy if I weren’t doing this. The last few years, we’ve not booked too many dates in January or February, just because it’s too hard to get around – we live in New England and you never know whether you’re going to be able to fly out or get back home at that time of year. But – at the end of those two months, I’m going crazy! I can’t wait to get out there and play! And then sometimes I’m at home for a week and I think, oh no I’ve got to get out again, but as soon as I get on stage I realize, this is what I do, this is what makes me happy.

DATC: Is it just that interaction, that feedback, that dynamic with the audience that does it?

CS: It’s not just that. It’s a place that I go to in my head when I play. I sort of dissociate from myself and I become…not another person, but a different avatar of myself. And if I’m out of touch with it for too long, I start to miss it. And I have countless people who come up to me after shows and say, please don’t stop what you’re doing – and it’s very hard to resist that kind of response!

DATC: Going back to the album, Chris, one of my favourite songs on the album is Nobody Home, which is a kind of wry, slightly caustic take on the current state of the world. You’ve got a few things in your sights here, including social media & disconnectedness. And in one of the verses, you have a preacher  just staring at his phone – getting the news or on FB or twitter, I guess – but his mouth is shut – “there’s nobody home.” And it made me think that the very people who ought to be saying something meaningful or critical of the way things are, are just silent.

CS: You got it! I got through to you! But it’s basically a song about a person looking for help, and he’s looking at all these places and he isn’t able to find it. But I’m not too cynical. But if the mid-term elections here in the United State don’t remedy things, I might get more cynical, because I find what’s going on politically almost unbelievable.

DATC: Yes, on this side of the Atlantic, we kind of watch, with jaws on the floor, each day’s new developments. And you mention quite explicitly in that song the big White House. And the “clown with a comb over, tweeting on his phone.” Again, there’s nobody home. How does this go down with audiences?

CS: You gotta understand about my audiences – nobody would come to my show being totally ignorant of where I stand on some issues. That verse is usually greeted with a huge roar of approval!

DATC: You’re busy touring the US for the rest of the year. And then you’re coming to the UK and Ireland in January. And you’ve been coming over here for a long time. You find get good responses in Ireland?

CS: Oh yeah. It’s a joy. People ask me, what’s your favourite place to play, and I always say Ireland – people there know how to get the best out of you.

DATC: Thank you Chris!

(Photograph credit: Jeff Fasano)

 

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Dana Fuchs in conversation: songs of hope and perserverance

Dana Fuchs’ 4^th album, Love Lives On, drips with emotion, honesty and passion. Recorded in Memphis, the songs are soaked in traditional American soul, along with a huge dollop of blues, and yet sound bang up to date. Born out of the pain of family loss and also the birth of her baby, Dana Fuchs sees the album as something of a new beginning for her. It is, she says, “all about hope and perseverance.”

Down at the Crossroads talked to Dana about making the album and the background to some of the songs.

DATC: Congratulations on the new album, Love Lives On. It’s got a great classic feel to it, great arrangements, great vocal performance – we love it! Tell us about the background of making the album and what you were trying to do with it.

DF: Thank you!  I decided to get out of New York City and go to the root of the music that inspired me to follow my passion.  The southern soul of Stax/Volt, Hi Records and Sun Studios. From Otis Redding to Al Green to Johnny Cash.  All huge musical influences.

It’s a way of paying homage to these great artists who inspired countless others.  All roads pointed to Memphis.  I wanted less heavy guitar and more space for the vocal. So, in

February and March 2017 we wrote songs with that direction which was so much fun because we only wrote with acoustic guitars and we would sing the horn lines we imagined creating with Memphis horns. Then I took a European tour that April trying them out live and then I went to Memphis to record my faves in May 2017.

DATC: Musically, it’s very rich – you’ve really got a great Memphis soul sound going, Tell us a bit about the musicians you worked with and the process of making this album.  

DF: The core band was:

• Charles Hodges – Charles created the soul rock organ!  At one point I had a steady diet of those Hi Record recordings of the Reverend Al Green.  I never really knew much about the Hammond organ until I discovered these records as a young girl.  That warm enveloping syrupy church sound that just makes you swoon.  Charles Hodges created that as far as I’m concerned.
• Steve Potts is the drummer – I wanted a seriously rooted drummer.  A guy who had as much power as he does soul.  A guy that defies all genre.  That is Steve Potts.  Almost 70 years old and plays with the strength of a 20 year old but with the wisdom and finesse that comes from his years of experience playing with so many legends of these genres.

 

• Then there is Glenn Patscha – Glenn has played on every album I’ve made except my very first.  He’s truly a musical genius.  He brings a flare and style to the piano, Wurlitzer and organ that is so unique.  It’s incredibly unpredictable.  He plays as if he’s a string or horn section and literally sings the parts for both before they even exist.  He can make keyboards sound like guitars, strings, horns, bells and go from dark and moody to happy and hopeful in one measure. It’s other worldly.
• Jack Daley is the powerhouse bass player.  He’s got such a feel and focus that just glues together every song.  He’s also been on most all of my albums.  Not to mention he’s just a Prince of a human being.  Jack is such a strong presence on bass yet at the same time can totally adapt and go with any flow.  He’s like that personally, as well.
• And then, Jon Diamond – Jon is the person I began my real musical pursuit with.  He is the one who turned me on to Otis and Al Green.  He puts the music under my words and knows where I’m going with something, sometimes almost before I do.  It’s a real songwriting partnership.  He’s been in the trenches with me since day one.  For better or for worse…hahahaha!

These guys were the live tracking band and made the songs come to life.  We’d listen down to the acoustic demo of each song once or twice and Steve the drummer would say, “Let’s cut it!” And we’d go in and usually they’d nail it in the first or second take.

It was seamless.  After that we brought in the horns.  Marc Franklin and Kirk Smothers.

They are the main studio guys down there and I see why!  They were lightning fast.

I’ve never worked with a horn section before, but it was amazing to be able to say, “Hey guys, can you make that part a little more…sad?”  Sometimes I’d say “lonely” or “desperate” or “hopeful’ and they’d just nail it in one take.  The singers were also just unbelievable.  Reba Russell and Susan Marshall.  Again, lightning fast and this style just pours from their bodies and throats!   Felix Hernandez was another gem we discovered down there.  We kept hearing congas on a few of the tracks and I finally asked the producer Kevin Houston if he could find someone.  We were almost out of time, but he delivered Felix and Felix more than delivered!

All of the musicians were chosen by Kevin Houston our producer except my NYC guys who’ve played on most of my albums:  Jon Diamond, Jack Daley and Glenn Patscha.

DATC: The album has a very positive, uplifting vibe. How much does that reflect your approach to life? Because as I understand it, life was pretty difficult for you at one stage.

DF: Yes, life definitely threw some tough punches my way and knowing that this is what life tends to do and many others have had it far worse, I was able to make the choice to use it as a way to grow and maybe even benefit others by sharing through music, or to just shut down.  There were times when I wondered if I’d ever be able to find joy on stage or in music again, but music never let me down.  (The business might – but the music doesn’t!).  As a Dutch friend of mine who works with refugees, addicts, orphans and autistic kids likes to say “we can go bitter or go better”.  I love that.  So, the album became about hope and perseverance.  Hopefully for anyone struggling who listens to it they’ll know they’re not alone.

DATC: Tell us about Callin’ Angels. It sounds like a call to be defiant in the face of difficulties.

DF: This is a song that has a verse for each family member who I lost.  The idea came about when I arrived at our Harlem studio at Jon Diamond’s place to write and he was playing the chords and saying “Come on all you angels.” Which struck me as odd because he’s an atheist and Jewish! He had no intention behind the words and was just thinking “gospel” style.  I immediately recalled a message someone sent me after my mother passed saying that with all the family loss I now had a lot of angels watching over me.  I was struck by the sweet sentiment and then reflected on how many of us have gone through loss already, so it has become a song of conjuring our lost loved ones in our hearts at every show.  But, I love that you see the defiance because it’s definitely there. There are times when I just speak to my brothers, sister or parents and say: “where the hell are you and why did you have to leave too soon?”  Sort of telling them “ok, if you’re angels watching over me, give some clue as to what the heck I’m supposed to be doing!”

DATC: And then there’s the gospel feel of Faithful Sinner, with the invitational church organ at the outset. What’s the background to that song?

DF: This song is about my father who went into the hospital with pneumonia and then was sent to a rehabilitation center to get his strength back.  He never did and died there hours after the family left him for the night.  I know that he knew he was going and I could see how scared he was.  He was a very tortured soul who had one of the most brutal lives of anyone I’ve ever known.  Severely abused by his own father & mother.  His father’s beatings only stopped because his father took his own life.  My father found him.  With all that pain he was most certainly a flawed parent.  Yet he tried so hard to do what was right.  A young man with 6 kids of his own struggling to keep his family running, he still always made sure we had a Christmas tree with toys, Easter baskets, bicycles he taught us to ride and he even made Halloween costumes every year for us with scraps of things around the house.   He could also be very angry and scary – especially when he drank.  That’s when the pain would overcome him, I think.  Still we knew he loved us.  He’d go to schools battling for us if we were wronged.  In the end, I know he felt so much guilt for where he failed as a parent.  He was raised Catholic and convinced God would never forgive him.  After he died my brother had a dream where my father told him that he thought “God set him up to fail.” This floored me, and I thought about my dad being once a beautiful little baby with so much hope and promise only to be neglected, abused and then try still to be a good person and father.  Which in many respects he most certainly was.  Hence, Faithful Sinner.  Ultimately, aren’t we all just flawed beings who are trying (I hope) to do the right thing?

DATC: Have you a particular favorite song on the album, one that’s particularly meaningful for you?

DF: It changes around.  First it was, Love Lives On, because that song was written for my mother while she was passing away next to me and I had just found out I was having a child.  Then it was Faithful Sinner and lately Sedative because it’s such a fun one to do live.  Plus, everyone initially thought it was about sex and a relationship gone wrong but it’s about panic attacks in the middle of the night from a mind that’s gone wrong!

DATC: You’ve included a cover of Ring of Fire. Johnny Cash’s original with the mariachi horns and so on is so distinctive, I wondered how you could do it differently. But it’s great. Why did you decide to include this?

DF: After my father passed away, I began covering this song live in this gospel way dedicating it to him each night.  He was a huge Johnny Cash fan as was I, thanks to him playing it for us as kids.  It was always so well received by audiences and once I knew I was recording in Memphis it made so much sense to add it.   It’s become a tribute to two great and tortured souls with bellowing voices.

DATC: You’re an ambassador for the JED Foundation. Tell us about that.

DF: The JED foundation is an organization whose mission is to protect the emotional well-being and prevent suicide for our nation’s teens and young adults.  Statistically, teens and young adults are suffering at alarming rates from a range of mental health issues including suicidal ideation and attempts. This level of emotional distress can be brought on by being overwhelmed with the transition into adulthood, especially if they’re battling depression, anxiety, bullying, discrimination, or any number of hidden triggers in their lives. I was approached by the CEO, John MacPhee, a few years ago, who is a fan and had been to several of my shows and heard me talk about my sister’s suicide around a song I’d written for her called, Songbird Fly Me To Sleep.  Since then, I have trained with JED and The Moth to become a JED Storyteller and I always attend their storyteller events and fundraisers, where young people get up and share their lived experiences. It’s really a smart approach, because hearing another person sharing what happened to them and how they got, or fought through it, is an incredible way to reduce stigma and create empathy and understanding. The song, Fight My Way is another one of my faves on the album, which I wrote just 2 days before going to Memphis to record, about the stories I’d just heard the night before from several young people who, if not for the right support, wouldn’t likely be here today.  I was so moved and shaken by it that I had to write a song about it.  Being a JED Ambassador simply means I spread the word through sharing my story and lived experience and I always point to JED’s amazing resources online any time I’m given a platform.  So, for me that’s always connected to music. On stage, in the studio – wherever.  It’s the only megaphone I have so it’s the best way I can hopefully serve the cause.

DATC: Dana, thank you!

Breaking Down the Walls: Luke Winslow-King Interview

Luke Winslow-King is one very fine guitarist, singer, composer and songwriter. Formally trained in musical composition and an accomplished jazz guitarist, he is able to fuse blues, gospel, R&B, folk and jazz into a hugely entertaining and quite original rootsy style.

He’s been performing since he was a teenager and releasing albums since 2007, playing in his adopted home of New Orleans and then touring extensively in North America and Europe. He’s just released his 6^th album, Blue Mesa, which is a wonderfully upbeat, positive album of rocking blues featuring Italian blues guitarist Roberto Luti.

Down at the Crossroads talked to Luke about the album and life on the road…

DATC: First of all, Luke, congratulations on the new album.  It’s very, very good; I’ve been playing it non-stop these past few days. Tell us about the background and what you were trying to do with this album.

LWK: Thank you so much. Well, I’m just putting one foot in front of the other and this is the next natural progression. I’m writing songs about my situation and life and just trying to take the next most natural step artistically.

DATC: The album has a quite different feel to your previous records, particularly musically. With some songs, we’re almost in blues-rock territory, with some nifty electric guitar solos. Is that a bit of a departure for you?

LWK: No I don’t think so. There’s been a natural growth from my first albums which were more acoustic, and there’s jazz roots in some of the early albums and classical too. But I’ve slowly introduced a more rocking electric sound, album by album, and actually, as an artist I feel like I’m coming back to my roots and playing music more like what I played when I was a kid in Northern Michigan. So, it’s actually not too far a departure for me personally. I think it works and I’m getting a great response to it on the road. It’s music that’s a little bit more energetic and accessible.

DATC: Who handles the electric guitar work on the album? Because there’s some pretty tasty stuff there.

LWK: Most of the solos on the album are Roberto Luti’s. So yeah, he definitely stars on electric guitar. How it’s developed on stage is that he’s more of the lead player and I’m more the rhythm player. Roberto tours Europe with us and will be on the road with us most of August through November.

DATC: It’s obvious you’re a fine guitar player, Luke. Not least slide player. Is the guitar your first instrument? Because I gather you have a formal musical education so I’m guessing you’re proficient with other instruments?

LWK: Yeah. My major in college was music composition, so my main focus was orchestration. So I learned the instrumental capabilities and limitations of many instruments and how to write for that – how to orchestrate and blend them together. I also had to become proficient with piano, so I can defend myself on the piano, as they say. I played all my scales and chords and I can tinker around. I also play harmonica, a little bit of banjo and mandolin and some other stringed instruments. I’ve played bass in some gigs. But guitar’s the main instrument that I feel comfortable performing with.

DATC: And did you start playing guitar at an early age?

LWK: Yes, my father was a guitarist and guitars were always around the house. So I started messing with guitar around 4 or 5 years old and then I started taking it more seriously, taking lessons when I was 10 or 11.

DATC: I’m guessing you have a pretty interesting guitar collection. What do you have and are there any real favourites there, one you would rescue if your house was burning down?

LWK: Yeah, I’ve a really cool American Conservatory parlor guitar from the 1880s which is very precious to me. It’s not really valuable, but it’s an old guitar that has a really great energy to it. That’d be one that I’d rescue! Then there’s my National guitar that’s been a huge part of my career – I’ve played a lot of Delta blues on that guitar in New Orleans over the last 15 years. It’s an all steel guitar and I’ve played that one for years and years, so that one’s really valuable to me.

I also have a really cool Jimmy Hendrix Stratocaster that my dad scored for me at a garage sale – pretty amazing to find a guitar like that. And I’ve a 1930s Gibson archtop and a 1950s one that I play a lot. But these days I’ve settled on playing newer Stratocasters that are more dependable and not so scary to take on the road.

Roberto has an amazing Stratocaster that is worth thousands and thousands of dollars. And vintage Stratocasters are amazing, vintage guitars are amazing, but we can get away with paying more modest, less valuable modern guitars on the road and like them just as well. Roberto’s got an amazing 1930s vintage National too.

DATC: So, you’re now 15 years or so into your career?

LWK: Yeah, I’m 35 now. I’d say for the last 8 years now I’ve been really hitting the road hard, and playing professionally and releasing albums since 2007. But I’ve been playing gigs and writing songs since long before that. I was playing festivals in Michigan when I was in High School.

DATC: And you’re now singing lines like “I can’t take nobody else/ I’m going alone/ I was born to roam” – how does this musical life, always moving around fit with you. Has it lived up to the expectations you had when you started out?

LWK: Well, there are peaks and valleys on every road. And I’ve definitely gained a lot from seeing the world, spreading my music around the world and building a fan base, and having people respond to my music. It’s been inspiring and it’s given me a lot to sing about.

With all that said, at some point I’d like to settle down and lead a more normal life, have a more stable relationship, have a home life as well. But I’ll never stop touring and taking this music around.

DATC: That’s good to hear! With regard to the album there’s a feel-good factor to it; it’s upbeat; you’re moving on; better things ahead. Have I got that right?

LWK: Yes, especially compared with the last album [I’m Glad Trouble Don’t Last Always] which was very much an emergency expression, just survival. And this one is more about a blend of different topics. It’s much more encouraging, inspiring to move forward.

DATC: And there’s serious stuff here as well – “Farewell Blues,” I understand is a song at least partly about your late father.

LWK: My father passed around the time I was releasing the album and also my old dear friend Lissa Driscoll (Lissa co-wrote You Got Mine, on Blue Mesa). So I wrote that song the day I heard my father was sick. It was a really hard thing to have to let go of someone who’s been so encouraging and supportive of me and my life, and was just an all round great guy to walk through life with. So yes, there are definitely some bitter sweet things on this album.

DATC: There’s a distinct Mississippi John Hurt feel to Farewell Blues, which gives it a really nice feel.

LWK: Yeah. John Hurt always had a way of making the blues sweet, you know? I’ve always appreciated that more mellow, country style blues, and I’ve always tried to learn to play that way. And to come up with melodies and have the whole thing happen on your right hand playing the chords and melody at the same time. There’s always that little pop to it, that little dance.

DATC: On each of your albums you have some gospel style songs: Blind Willie Johnson’s Keep Your Lamps Trimmed & Burning; Everlasting Arms which is reminiscent of an old hymn; On My Way from your last album; and now Break Down the Walls – which I love, by the way; I love the positive vibe of it. What is it about this sort of music, this sort of spirit, that appeals to you and resonates with people?

LWK: Well for me it’s music that matters, it’s real, it’s sincere. And it comes from my personal roots in growing up in a Baptist church and having that music as something that was taken seriously. So I appreciate the authenticity of that music and the depth of it. So I want to direct my own songs in that style. You know, especially when we talk about Blind Willie Johnson, I can really relate to that because it’s gospel music, but it’s also blues, two things that I really respond to a lot. So I’ve just been trying to discover myself within those genres and styles, and try and make some of my own music that way.

DATC: And tell us about Break Down the Walls.

LWK: Yeah, I had a real life change that revolved spending a couple of weeks in Kalkaska County jail in Northern Michigan after getting busted with a small amount of marijuana. I was in a solitary cell because I have an extreme allergy to peanuts. So I had to spend a lot of time alone in a tiny little cell, freezing, and thinking and reading, and Break Down the Walls is one of the ones that came out of that experience of being alone, and discovering and overcoming personal boundaries. And that was a microcosm of whatever might be holding us back in life. That experience seemed so terrible and traumatic at the time. And I could see pretty much my whole life unravelling, but I’m actually grateful for the experience now because I discovered I had a new chance, a new lease of life, and I feel sincerely that I’m in the right place with my life and my music now,

DATC: And that really comes across in the new album for sure. Finally, Luke, you’re touring extensively around the US and beyond over the next few months?

LWK: This weekend we’re playing Grand Rapids and Detroit, then next week out to the West Coast, Seattle and Portland, San Francisco, LA, then Utah and Chicago. And then I’m doing some festivals over the summer, and then hitting the road in the Netherlands, the UK, France Germany and Spain all throughout the Fall. And I’m working on new music and performing these songs from the album. So it’s pretty exciting.

DATC: Yes it absolutely is. Best wishes for the tour and very many thanks.

The Steady Rollin’ Blues Tour – Brooks Williams & Hans Theessink

Brooks Williams and Hans Theessink are seasoned blues troubadours who play to knowledgeable audiences across Europe and the United States. Brooks hails from Statesboro, Georgia (yeah, he’s got them Statesboro blues) but is now based in England, while Hans is based in Vienna, Austria.

Both are fabulous guitarists, have a deep appreciation for, and knowledge of, the blues and the social history of the blues, and are engaging and absorbing performers. Going to a concert given by either man will entertain you, challenge you, and above all, send you home satisfied with a big smile on your face.

Getting both playing together for an evening, swapping songs, alternating the lead vocals, harmonizing and trading guitar licks would be really something, then, right? Well, the two guys have embarked upon a joint tour of Great Britain this month, playing 21 gigs in 21 days. Not to be missed – check out the schedule for the Steady Rollin’ Blues Tour here.

And, be sure and get yourself a copy of Brooks Williams’ new album, Lucky Star, out in July which features a couple of tracks with both Brooks and Hans playing together.

Down at the Crossroads spoke to Hans and Brooks before their evening in the Core Theatre in Solihull and asked them about their life in the blues and life on the road…

DATC: How do you two know each other and how did this tour come about?

Brooks: Well, I’ve known of Hans since the very beginning of my career. And we did meet at the Philadelphia Folk Festival in 1996, but we met properly for the first time when we went to Dallas in 2005, at an anniversary concert for a great venue called Uncle Calvin’s. And we have mutual friends and that was kind of the connection. And then a couple of years ago I did the tour here with Guy Davis. And about half way through the tour, it just occurred to me that the audience really like it when we did stuff together – it became apparent that that was the point in the evening when the show just took off. Even though each of us could do our own thing, there was something magical happened then. So, I started thinking that perhaps this could be thought of as something that happens every 18 months.

And the first one at the top of my list was Hans. ‘Cause I just thought our styles would complement each other. And I was really excited about the possibilities. And thankfully when I presented the idea to Hans, he said, yeah, let’s go for it.

Hans: And we also said we’d not do separate sets and then two songs together at the end. Let’s do the whole thing together. So we swop songs, but we’re on stage playing together all the time.

DATC: And what sort of music can people expect?

Brooks: Blues, but a range – some country blues, a little bit of Texas blues, some of the Delta in there, some really nice Broonzy-style finger picking. Stuff that we love, and we bring it together through the process of how we interpret songs.

DATC: And when you talk about re-interpreting songs – how do you go about that, when you pick up an old blues song, and feel, yeah, that might work. How do you reinterpret that from the original?

Hans: Well, you couldn’t reproduce it. So you can only go another way. I try to get the feel of a song, try to crawl into that.

Brooks: For me, there’s usually one lyric in the song that I latch onto. I mean I’m into the whole song, but there’s usually one lyric that’s my cue. So, we’re going to do Backwater Blues and when I was doing the arrangement for that – and there are so many beautiful arrangements, there are some great ones – but the line that caught me was, I think it’s at the end of the 4^th verse, where it says there’s going to be a lot of people with nowhere to go. It’s talking about the storm and the rain, there’s going to be a lot of people homeless. So, I thought, what kind of mood would there be in the guitar part, if that’s the line you’re ultimately going to get to? And so that affected the tuning that I used, the little guitar figure. And then as Hans and I do it, Hans brought this, almost moving bass line – almost like a kind of slowed down blues bogey, like a blues shuffle. It just great. It’s got great power, but it’s got a little edge of desperation. And it was just that lyric that it should all feel like that. Now I know that’s miles away from other versions, but I really like that lyric and where it takes me.

Hans: And I also think it’s good that it’s miles away from other versions! But then we have a song like Deep River Blues, which is pretty close to the original.

DATC: So for each of you – what do you admire about the other person’s playing and performing?

Hans: Well, Brooks has this great thumping guitar style, and beautiful slide playing. We both obviously listen to the same people – Mississippi John Hurt and Fred McDowell and people like that, so even though we come from places far apart, we both have the same kind of general influence. So when we talk about music or listen to records, we obviously know the same things.

Brooks: One of the things that I’ve always admired about Hans’s playing is something I would have aspired to in the early days when I was listening to his Flying Fish record. It’s that way of keeping the bass going – either alternating bass or thumping bass – but doing lovely figures at the same time. So it’s like two or three parts all at once. It moves the way a piano player moves. I like to hear motion. And Hans has a great sense of the songs that he chooses to cover. And a great sense of bringing all this to his own writing, that same feel, that same tradition – so you can put a song from the ‘30s and a song of Hans side by side, and they sit very well right next to each other. The lyrics are poignant and relevant in both cases.

Hans: And even though a song might be slow, it’s all, like, groove oriented. Which is very important, not to lose the groove. And it might be really slow, like behind the beat, or whatever, but it’s still moving and that groove is really important. And Brooks has got that totally.

DATC: And you mentioned Mississippi John Hurt. You get that in a player like John Hurt don’t you?

Brooks: Yeah, that fingerpicking, the way the thumb moves, yeah.

DATC: You mentioned some of the country blues players. When you think back to the context in which they played, the situation they were in, the instruments they played, what do you admire about some of those players?

Brooks: One of the things that grabs me about those early blues players is that they were so far ahead of the curve, so to speak, they were creating something that really hadn’t been created before. When I was learning to play and learning to play slide guitar, there were lots of people I could get ideas from. But with some of the early players, you get the idea there might have been only one other person they possibly could’ve listened to – or maybe in some cases, no one else! There wouldn’t have been the access to records – it would all have happened because they crossed paths with other musicians.

Hans: I’m sure a guy like Charlie Patton had nobody to lean on. They just created their own thing.

Brooks: I know the world has changed many times over. But fundamentally they were trying to make their way in the world and make some sort of living, to make a way in the world playing music, and that is powerful, considering what some of those players would have been up against, socially, economically. Those were some pretty huge mountains to cross, and just the fact that they did it and we’re still listening to it. And it’s still vibrant!

DATC: So both of you play to audiences in Europe and the US – is there still an appetite for this sort of music where ever you play?

Hans: People come and like the hand made feel of things – things happening on the spot, the voice and the guitar and that’s it. And they can see what we’re doing.

DATC: And it’s real music.

Hans: And sometimes we fly off, we get into some improvised bit, and people enjoy that. They can see that its happening here and now and it’s never going to happen again. And that’s the big charm of this kind of music

DATC: What about the demographic – is there a younger audience for this type of music?

Hans: I find that the audience is getting up there! But there’s always young kids in the first row who want to play guitar and want to see what fingering you’re using. But I think the general audience is getting older.

Brooks: One of the things I’d like to see – and I’ve been thinking about this pretty seriously for about a year – how can one expose people to the wonderful flexibility in the blues so that they can see how vibrant it can be for them? It would be exciting to see it moving forward in some way – I’m not sure what that way might be. And the two things that I’ve seen in my travels that keep the blues vibrant in the ears and eyes of people is firstly, blues has such a direct link to rock and roll, so that even some kid who is 13 and wants to play rock guitar, they’ve figured out they need to know how to play blues guitar; that that’s part of the process. So that’s a cool thing. The other thing is that when you find an audience that has figured out that this music – even though it’s set in a time and place and an economic and social situation – that it’s as relevant now for people as it was back then. It’s very alive. Even though some of the language in some of the older songs may be a little bit foreign to our ears, it’s really vibrant music.

DATC: And – unfortunately – increasingly relevant in the world we’re now living in.

Brooks: Yeah, absolutely.

DATC: You’ve both had long careers. What ways has the music industry change for you as a recording and performing artist?

Hans: Well, lots of colleagues complain it’s not working as well as it used to. I must say, on my part, I cannot really complain. For my part, I’m pretty happy, but I guess for new kids starting out, it must be difficult to get your foot in the door.

Brooks: The changes haven’t affected me. I had my best year in 28 years, last year! I’m still travelling that little bit under the radar and so some of the changes that might slow some aspects of the industry down, actually don’t reach me. And because there is less opportunity to hear roots music on the radio, people go online more to listen to online radio and what is interesting is they’re getting turned on to artists they wouldn’t otherwise know of. And so I’ll show up in a little town where I’ve never been and someone will say, oh I heard you on such and such a radio station which you only can get online.

Hans: Or you get somebody from Nepal ordering a CD! You know, I think continuity is really important. To keep doing what you’re doing, so people know what to expect. And if you do quality work over the years, that’s what they’ll expect. Keep doing what you love doing. And if people catch your enjoyment, you being happy doing what you do, that really rubs off.

DATC: So on that point Hans, we’re all getting a bit older – how does touring feel compared with when you were younger, and what is it about what you do that keeps you going?

Hans: I still enjoy playing and playing for an audience. Now this tour is a pretty hefty one – something like 21 days of concerts. So it’s good that we are sharing the stage and swapping songs, so you’re not singing every song! But I really enjoy playing, and as long as the health situation is good, that’s the way to go.

Brooks: You know, for the first 10 or 15 years of my career, I had to constantly just stay on task. I don’t know whether it was just me, or the nature of the travelling, I had a young baby at home, I was married and it just seemed like a lot of burden. But what has been an absolute pleasure in the last decade has been being able to sit back and enjoy – really enjoy – what it is I am doing. And to look ahead at a year and say, “Hey wouldn’t it be great if Hans wanted to come over, and we’d do a tour, and what about three and a half weeks, wouldn’t that be great?” And if we could just dream that? And here’s it’s happening and that’s really exciting. And I feel like, if at all possible, as long as I can keep playing, I’d like to have experiences like the one we’re having now – where it’s fun, it’s interactive, where I’m learning, where I’m loving the music and the audiences. And then, after the tour is over, Hans will do some solo shows and I’ll do some solo shows, and we’ll each play with our bands – but we’ll go back to all of that a little bit richer, and more inspired. It’s like, now, I’m finally at a point in my life I can enjoy it!

Hans: It’s exciting to do things you haven’t done before. Like, when we took off last week, we just said, here’s a list of songs, you pick one, I’ll pick one – and here we go! This is great.

DATC: And this sort of enthusiasm for sure comes across to your audiences. Great, thanks guys and best wishes for the rest of the tour!

 

Eric Bibb Interview: Still believing we can find a way to live in peace.

Eric Bibb is a star in the firmament of acoustic blues musicians. With two Grammy nominations and multiple Blues Foundation awards, he’s forged a hard-working career over five decades and gathered a multitude of fans all over the world. If you’ve ever been to an Eric Bibb concert, you’ve come away with a smile on your face that probably lasted a week. His songs are rooted in the blues but have a lightness of touch and a joy that is infectious.

He’s a very fine guitarist, song-writer and singer, but it’s the humanity, challenge and soulfulness of his performances, all spiced with a gentle humour, that linger long after the last resonating note of his guitar.

Eric’s father, the late Leon Bibb, was an activist, actor, and folk singer who marched at Selma with Dr. Martin Luther King, and Eric carries on the dream of a better world. His songs are infused with notes of challenge and gospel hope. His latest album, Migration Blues, is a record for our times, highlighting the plight of immigrants everywhere, through songs about the injustices of the American South and the hardships of those currently fleeing war and disaster. The album features the excellent Michael Jerome Browne, a Canadian Folk Awards artist of the year, and J J Milteau, top-notch harmonica player.

Down at the Crossroads had a conversation with Eric before his gig that night in the Tivoli Theatre in Dublin. The conversation ranged over music, the Grammys, immigration, war and racism – and, of course, hope for the future.

DATC: Last time I saw you, Eric, was at the City Winery gig in New York City the night before the Grammys. And you stood up and sang – I think it was “Refugee Moan,” from last year’s Migration Blues album. It was spellbinding, and we all felt the goose bumps – it seemed very significant to be singing that song about that subject right there in the heart of New York. Tell us about that song and choosing to sing it in that way that night.

Eric Bibb: I’ve been singing it like that for a while now. The response has always been remarkable. Yeah people get it, they really do and I’m thankful for that.

DATC: I was very disappointed to see the next day that the Rolling Stones won the traditional blues category that you were nominated for. Any of the others would have suited the category much better. How did you feel about that?

Eric Bibb: Ugh. It was a strange choice I thought in that category. But, I don’t really know what drives these things. My conclusion is that this is not based on serious music analysis or cultural analysis. Other factors have a role. What that mix is, I really can’t say. In the end I was happy to have been nominated, but I do think it was a bit absurd.

DATC: Yeah, I think a lot of us did.

Eric Bibb: Traditional blues album – really? Really guys? OK. And then I don’t know if politics plays a role in it, you know. It’s hard to say, I know that the Recording Academy has a first selection and then it goes out to members, who those people are…

DATC: The whole Migration Blues album bemoans the state of the world. You’ve got lyrics like: “Heart full of Trouble, weighted down like lead, temperature’s gone sky high, can’t find no work, no matter how hard I try.” In these songs I hear you addressing climate change, the woes of immigrants, the devastation of war, poverty – you must have felt quite strongly about things to make an album like this?

Eric Bibb: Yeah, I was trying to connect the dots. It’s all related. It’s good to be reminded I think. For example, it was a hot topic back in the late sixties when Dylan came out with Masters of War. But, you know, that doesn’t seem currently to be part of the big debate. Who’s manufacturing all this stuff? I mean, who’s making money on it? You’d be surprised at some of the players.

DATC: And the biggest part of the refugee problem is because of war.

Eric Bibb: This is it. It’s driven millions of people away from their homes. This is serious beyond belief. And I think if we knew the facts – which we don’t – we would be appalled. In Europe they have to deal with this flood of refugees, but the reasons behind all of this is not really talked about.

DATC: Yeah, there’s a lot of vested interests when we talk about war and conflict. But this was an album you really wanted to make, Eric, at this time?

Eric Bibb: The idea to make an album based on the theme of migration came to me from my good friend Philippe Langlois at Dixifrog Records, who is my European partner in recording and distribution, and he just said, “You know Eric, it’s a current topic, it interfaces with your own ancestral history.” So, food for thought there, and I began doing some research and I connected the current refugee crisis together with the Great Migration in the United States. Then it really started to unfold and I realized, you know, everybody’s got a migration story. Everybody’s been on the lam from some natural disaster or oppression or whatever. Which is interesting because it’s almost like if you vocally support migrants, you’re some kind of…

DATC: Some kind of left wing radical.

Eric Bibb: Yeah, yeah. Come on, get your empathy together. You were there once, too, you know, so I don’t know what’s radical or left wing about having some kind of empathy for people who are forced out to leave their ancestral homelands. But everything has become so politicized.

DATC: And I was interested in you saying in one of the songs, “Migration is not a problem, it’s an opportunity.”

Eric Bibb: It’s true. Listen, it’s because of migration that everything good about human civilization has come into being. It’s all about culture collisions, some of them gentle, some of them not, but all the forward steps of human kind have everything to do with that type of blending of the tribes. It’s obvious.

DATC: The song Blacktop – is that a version of Hayes McMullan’s Everyday Seems Like Murder Here? It seems similar:

Eric Bibb: Yes it is, I think Michael [J Browne] and his writing partner, B.A. Markus, they wrote that song inspired by particularly that line. Michael is encyclopaedic in his knowledge of the music he plays. He’s a scholar. So, that he would use that quote is not surprising.

DATC: So it’s great that he’s contributed to this album. I’ve listened to and appreciated his music for many years and it’s great to hear the two of you together.

Eric Bibb: Yeah, he’s a treasure. Michael is in the band on this tour along with Neville Malcolm on bass and Paul Robinson on drums. Michael will probably do a number tonight on his own. In some shows, Michael has been the opening act.

DATC: And then in the midst of all the reality, the darkness, on the album, you give us Brotherly Love – “I still believe, we can find a way to live in peace.” Is that what keeps you going?

Eric Bibb: It is. For all of the stuff we are fed by the major new outlets, I think there’s a lot that’s going on that is very positive in the world that just never gets publicized. I’m encouraged, just because I travel a lot and see people who really seem to understand where the world is at and what needs to be done, and seem to be on board with doing it, particularly young people.

But I see no choice but to hold out in my music and my songs a message of hope because otherwise, everything becomes pointless. And I think that that’s not the way it should be. I think we’ve definitely cocked things up in a big way and been party to people doing some major harm to the planet and to our communities. But for all of that, I actually think awareness is shifting. I think there are more and more people who are tired of conflict. I see music playing a major role in connecting cultures, exposing people to cultures that they might not have much to do with. And that produces a kind of softening. You know we’re tribalistic – we’re human – and it takes time to break down that old, almost genetic, tendency to separate “us” and “them.” But – it’s happening. And I think the young people, connected by the Internet, is a big part of it too. So, I am hopeful, despite all of the conflicts that are raging around the world. I think we’ll come out the other end.

DATC: Well, I guess if we can do it up in the north of Ireland…for many years it was “us” and “them.” But we’ve moved on a lot.

Eric Bibb: Yeah, big time.

DATC: There’s a great version of Woody Guthie’s This Land is Our Land. It just resonates so well with the whole album.

Eric Bibb: I grew up with that song. I was very happy to realize how well it fit in and how it ties things together. Particularly in this era of Trumpism. It strains the imagination to think of this guy as the President of the United States of America.

Bu these are interesting times, I think a lot of people have basically become separated from reality. You can tune into certain television channels and basically live in a bubble that has nothing to do with what is really going on in the world. I think there are a lot of people in America who seem to have the free time to sit on the couch and watch Fox News. And with a diet of that and little else, it’s very possible to get a very distorted view of the world – where a guy like Donald Trump could be appealing.

Also, mainstream politicians have also lost contact – that’s obviously the main reason why Trump could even exist as the President.

DATC: That’s why I think your art is very important. You’re connecting the history and the situation in the American South and the blues tradition with what’s going on in the rest of the world. And when you talk about Jim Crow and the sundown towns in your songs – it seems to me that the reality of that is something that large swathes of Americans haven’t ever really come to terms with.

Eric Bibb: They don’t even know it actually happened! The ignorance factor when it comes to awareness of our own history is so huge. It’s not taught properly in schools – and yet this information is out there. I think the solution is a really serious educational push to acquaint Americans with their history. And the reason it’s been submerged and marginalized is that, to say the very least, it’s uncomfortable for everybody. It’s uncomfortable to the ancestors of slaves, for the ancestors of slave owners, and it’s something people want to skim over rather than understand in depth the horrific dimensions of it and how it’s left its prints on contemporary society in a major way.

You know, when people talk about the concept of a post-racial America, I say – are you kidding me? What? Just because a brown skinned man got elected? There’s nothing post-racial about America. The poison of racism is so deeply engrained in the tradition of that hierarchy, it’s going to take a massive facing of it and re-education.

But, who knows? I see very encouraging signs in factual books and literature; I’m seeing a lot of writers – not necessarily African American writers – who are saying, “Hey, we really need to take a good look at what has really happened in this country,” starting with the genocide with the indigenous people and continuing through the slave trade, and really try to understand the stage we’re at right now. How did we get to be this very divisive society? I mean we’ve not even made a symbolic attempt at reconciliation. Like, take the Germans – they’ve done an amazing job – credit where it’s due.

Neville Malcolm plays bass on this tour with Eric

DATC: There’s a song that was on the North Mississippi Allstars album from last year, and then the Blind Boys of Alabama took it up on their Almost Home album. It’s a great song, actually, and decries the “ignorance and hate” of racism that is around today, and says, “I hate to think that our grandmothers would be broken hearted, to see their children’s children right back where we started.” It also says, “I wish we all could be colour blind,” which seems to me to be a fine aspiration, but I kind of wonder, is colour-blindness what is needed right now? Maybe coming face to face with it, coming to terms with it is what is needed?

Eric Bibb: Yes, exactly. It’s about first recognizing that – in the modern age, in the West for sure, there’s just been a tremendous prejudice against what is referred to in the news as people of colour. And this orientation is so engrained, so institutional, that people don’t think about it. This is what needs to be reversed, what needs to be addressed, in a very specific way. And it’s possible, we can do it, you know? But I agree with you, colour blindness is not the solution, we need to face the fact that people look the way they look and there’s a variety of looks and tones and get over it! And accept it and embrace it and be happy for it!

I mean we’re all African people. We all emanated from East Africa, from a brown-skinned woman!

DATC: So, tell me about the collaboration with Michael Jerome Browne, who’s a wonderful artist, great guitar player. Tell us about that.

Eric Bibb: I met Michael at Calgary Folk Festival years ago. He was playing a gourd banjo, a slave banjo – it sounded amazing – and I didn’t expect to see someone who looked like him playing it! And I thought his playing was just a revelation, so we got in touch and we started working together after a while. I know a lot of great musicians, but Michael is all on his own when it comes to his awareness and knowledge of the language of the country blues and beyond. It’s unique.

DATC: Now let me ask you this Eric – you’ve been a hard-working professional musician for a long time now. And, like the rest of us, unfortunately we’re not getting any younger – of course, you look about 15 years younger than me, at least! How tough is touring; does it seem any harder than when you were younger; or does the joy of it, what you get back from the audience sustain you?

Eric Bibb: I still have the joy of it for sure. The physical side of it – it’s not the playing, it’s the hauling of your instruments around from place to place and so on – that can be a strain. It’d be great just to be able to turn up and do the show! But I still have to be on the ground involved with the logistics and stuff. Actually, I’d like to stay home more and teach more, but I don’t want to stop touring. It’s an essential part of what I’ve enjoyed and still enjoy doing.

And the opportunity to travel so often and widely is the greater blessing. The strain of it and how it wears you down is minor compared with what it’s given me as a human being. Just to be in touch with so much of the surrounding world. It’s a huge blessing.

DATC: Eric – thank you!

Clarksdale’s Roger Stolle on the blues: “It’s the feeling of it, the truth of it, the humanness of it.”

Roger Stolle runs the Cat Head Delta Blues and Folk Art store in Clarksdale, Mississippi, which he opened in 2002, after moving from St. Louis with a mission to “organize and promote the blues from within.” Since then he’s started a record label, written a book on the history of the blues in Mississippi, produced several documentaries about the blues and been behind several blues festivals now flourishing in the town.

The Cat Head store is a treasure trove of blues related stuff – CDs, DVDs, posters, books, memorabilia – and Roger says, “I basically tried to build the store I wanted to walk into but could never find!” Of Mississippi he says that when he moved there he found some of the nicest, most open people he’d ever met.

Roger’s is a remarkable story of one man’s love for the blues, for the Mississippi Delta and the people of Clarksdale, which, in many ways is the home of the blues. Roger told Down at the Crossroads his story –

DATC: Roger, how does a guy from Ohio, a successful corporate marketing executive end up in the Mississippi Delta, with his life revolved around the blues?

Roger: It’s crazy! But let me back up a little and tell you how I got into blues. It’s August 17, 1977, I’m ten years old, I’m in Trotwood, Ohio and Elvis Presley just died. “The King is dead at 42,” said the newspapers, and I’m, like, “what is that?!” My parents didn’t listen to music, and to me, this looks interesting.  And then you turn on the TV, the radio, you go to the mall and hear the PA, everything is Elvis. It was crazy, he was on the front page of our papers in Ohio every single day for the whole week. It was huge.

So, I’m exposed to this music and, to be honest, not all of it hit me in the same way – I didn’t know what I was hearing, but what I now know is that I was into his blues and R&B stuff. I was into the Tupelo-Memphis Elvis, not the Hollywood-Las Vegas Elvis.

So that’s the music I kept trying to seek out. I’d buy these little 45s at Sears – and the reason I know what I liked is I still have that stuff – they’re all blues and R&B covers. Anyway, I’m getting into it without knowing it. You move forward a little, I’m getting older – I won’t say that I was necessarily an Eric Clapton fan at the time, but I knew that he was a big blues fan and in interviews he loved to mention Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, Robert Johnson, Freddie King and so on. And I would just jot those names down, and I’d go to all the little malls and record stores in our area, looking – ‘cos there’s no Internet, there’s no Google, you can’t look this stuff up, even to know what ones to buy. And a lot of the time, I would just buy the cheapest used LP or new cassette tape – and sometimes you got a good one and sometimes you got, like, the one bad Lightnin’ Hopkins album! So I tried to self -educate.

Keep moving forward in time and after college I stumbled into advertising. I worked my way up pretty quickly into management and moved into a great job in St Louis in February 1995.

So I move there, but I’m a blues fan at that point. I’ve been educating myself, I’ve seen whatever blues artists have come through the crossroads of I70 and I75 in Dayton Ohio. Oddly enough, the first time I ever saw R L Burnside was in 1998 at a jazz club in Dayton – and the next time I saw him was in a juke joint in 1996 in Mississippi.

So anyway, I come down here around 1996 and do what I call for my customers the Dead Man’s Blues Tour. I really thought it was all gone, but I thought I’d come down and see where my heroes came from. And there weren’t that many headstones at that time – most of them are modern, paid for by fans – and there’s no Mississippi Blues Trail or history markers. The State was not recognizing blues as being important yet. There were no guide books, and you just showed up and tried to talk to people. And it was really cool, because you got to meet blues folk who I always found to be fabulous – they’d invite you to their homes and stuff. If you were here on a weekend, there might be some live blues somewhere in the Delta, but it wasn’t a guaranteed thing, certainly not in Clarksdale.

There were three main blues festivals in the region, two in Mississippi, one in Arkansas, that I’d come down for.  The Sunflower Blues festival in Clarksdale, the Delta Blues and Heritage festival in Greenville and then the King Biscuit festival in Helena, Arkansas, which was particularly good during those years. But that was really it. Now of course we have a whole bunch of festivals.

So I just kept visiting and I’d go hang out with T-Model Ford – he became a buddy so I’d come down and hang out with him and his family. And he’d get the guitar out, and I had a great job, so I’d always pay him like it was a little house party.

After six and a half years of visiting, I just felt like it was all slipping away. And these little towns like Clarksdale that I had fallen in love with were dying. The downtown was dying, people were moving out of the neighbourhood…

And so I moved here with a mission to organize and promote the blues from within. That was my mission statement on my business plan – it wasn’t just about opening a store, it was about the mission. I moved here, trying to work with musicians, juke joint owners, club owners or potential club owners.

DATC: That was quite a vision, Roger.

Roger: Well, it’s funny to look back. I forget sometimes how crazy it actually looks! Now it seems like it’s brilliant! But it was pretty crazy, I have to admit. I mean the job I had was the sort of job people dream of getting. It was awesome, I was going to Hong Kong and Taipei and Europe and New York all the time, I had 14 people working for me, the pay and benefits were crazy, but I kept on coming down here and I realized, this is where I was supposed to be.

DATC: How did your family feel about this crazy move?

Roger: Well, I went and saw my Dad and stepmother in Florida and his comment was, “Well, we know you wouldn’t do anything stupid son.” And I was like, I wouldn’t give me that much credit! But my mother was so upset – she’d been bragging to her friends about what I’d been doing in my career – but she just stood up off her sofa, didn’t say a word, and walked out the front door! She wouldn’t talk to me that night, she was so upset. But now she’s come around because I’ve sent her my book and magazine writings and documentaries and CDs and so on. She understands now why I’ve done it, even if it’s not her dream.

DATC: Leaving the corporate world to start up a small business, always seems like a big risk to people who don’t do it.

Roger: When I resigned my boss, who was new in position and suddenly had me who is responsible for this whole department of people, resigning – first he tried to bribe me and then to guilt me out of it. They tried to not let me quit. It was the craziest thing.

Anyway, I land here in Clarksdale, and of course I knew a lot of people I’d met over the years. But it’s one thing to be visiting and another to say, hey I’ve moved here! I needed a two-wheel dolly and there’s a local company here in Clarksdale that makes them. So, I thought, cool, I’ll buy local, and I go out there and there’s this older white lady at the front counter who says, OK, follow me, I’ll show you what we got. We start walking back towards the warehouse, and I said, I just moved here from St. Louis and I’m opening a store, and before I could even get the statement out, she stops and turns around and says, “Boy, why’d you move to hell?”

DATC: Wow! And that’s your first day?

Roger: Yeah, in her mind the town was done, and she was just stuck here.

DATC; Did that unsettle you Roger?

Roger: Not at all! The glass is always half full for me. I remember going on one of those first weeks to the Mayor and board of commissioner meetings at City Hall to get in tune with what is going on in town. And I remember this old man – there use to be this public comments section which they did away with – this old white guy standing up and he just ranted about blues ain’t gonna save our town and I’m tired of hearing about people spending time and money on this. And of course my argument was – yes you’re exactly right, blues will not save the town – alone. But – I don’t see anything else to work with, so that’s the first piece on the table, work with that, start building on to it and you get somewhere. One thing alone isn’t going to do it unless Nissan moves a car plant here or something.

So that’s what we’ve been doing for 16 years, slowly building this community of people working on this.

DATC: Did you find, Roger, people at the beginning were resistant to this guy coming in from the outside with his vision for their town. Did you get any naysayers, apart from the woman who thought you’d moved to hell?

Roger: Well, I’m no brain surgeon or rocket scientist and I can prove it any day of the week! One of the things I bring to a situation though is that I’ve always been able to work with almost anybody. So coming here my whole thing was, I’m not going to be telling people what they should be doing or how they should be doing it, and I sure wasn’t going telling people why they should think blues is important. I’m going to show them, let them discover things in their own way for themselves.

So for example, one of the major ways we were able to do that, is I partnered with Bubba O’Keefe, a local Clarksdale guy – super energetic, very intelligent, a local businessman who loves this town. And we started a juke joint festival. It’s now our town’s biggest event, coming up to its fifteenth anniversary. The secret of that is that it’s not just another blues festival – it’s half blues festival, half small town fair, and all about the Delta. So this year we have 110 blues acts, but also monkeys riding dogs herding sheep! Also we have racing pigs, and a petting zoo and things for kids. Those kind of things everybody wants to see – we may not think it’s right, but we wanna see it!

And you know, Southern hospitality is a real thing. People are going to ask you where you’re from and be hospitable if you can put them in the same room as these tourists from around the world.

We polled people in 2016 and we found people from at least 28 countries. I think that’s insane! So those people are all here. And locals are, like, hey, where are y’all from? And the overseas folks start talking about how much they love the town. Not just the music, but the town. And those are the type of situations, umbrellas if you like, that we’ve been trying to open around here

DATC: So what do you particularly like about living in Clarksdale?

James “T-Model” Ford

Roger: When I first moved here, people would say to me, hey, you must really love the blues to have moved here. Well, I do, but that alone wouldn’t have done it. It’s the music that brought me, but the people that made me want to stay. You know, being friends with someone like Red Paden who owns Red’s Juke Joint – awesome. And having been friends with and taking guys overseas who aren’t with us any more like Robert Belfour and T-Model Ford – having those experiences – priceless. Those are the kind of things that made it all worthwhile, honestly.

And it’s a cool little town. It’s become kinda artsy, very musical. We’ve had people who have moved here in the past 13 years from at least 4 or 5 foreign countries, a couple of couples from Australia for example, others from over a dozen US states. So you have that interesting mix of people, but everybody brings some kind of quirky thing from where they came from and people who come here know it’s not a place you come to “do it your way.” You come here and you get in where you fit in.

DATC:  What are your hopes for the town in the future?

Roger: More of the same. Continuing to develop downtown, sell more buildings, get more tourists here. But it would be nice to see a more consistent traffic all year round, because it is a real challenge to do business here. In the bigger picture, what Clarksdale really needs is to attract a decent sized manufacturing plant, somebody who can add a few hundred jobs. And like many small communities, our schools continue to need work. Those are the kinds of things that blues and cultural tourism literally can’t fix – but it can attract people who are able to fix those things.

DATC: Roger, you own and manage the Cat Head Delta Blues & Folk Art store; but you do other things as well…?

Roger: So the films that I’ve worked on – Hard Times, M for Mississippi, We Juke Up in Here, and then Moonshine & Mojo Hands is our newest project, which is a web series that going to go to DVD shortly. And my partner on those film projects and some of the recording stuff too is Jeff Konkel, who still lives in St Louis. He came down to my store and saw I’d started a record label, and he said, “If that idiot can do it, I’m sure I could do it,” so he started his own. Frankly, he’s probably done better with his than I did with mine!

Then we started working on bigger projects together. I also wrote a book called the Hidden History of Mississippi Blues. I’m hoping to write a new one, due out next year on juke joints. I did three albums on Big George Brock, and then there’s the festivals.

DATC: What is it about the blues that appeals to you, speaks to you? What is it that still draws people to the blues, to artists whose music has been around for a long time?

Roger: It’s a great question, and I think language fails us trying to describe it. When you hear it for the first time, it’s the feeling of it, the truth of it, the humanness of it. But when you sort of analyse it, in the long term, especially nowadays – there’s a word, authenticity, that gets overused and misused. And when we’re talking about music that came from here, it’s just that authentic musical experience, it’s the voice of a culture. To me, you feel that, it’s real. It’s not this process-created, marketed kind of thing.

Now of course blues as a genre has become huge, in terms of the breadth of it. But for me, when you come to the guys who came from the culture, that is why they sound the way they do. That’s the kind of stuff that gets to the heart of things, for me. It’s hard not to be touched by it.

DATC: And you’ve spoken to a lot of local blues artists, some now passed on, like David Honeyboy Edwards, and recorded that in your columns in Blues Revue and in your book; What are some of the broad impressions about the blues and the history of the blues you’ve gathered as you look back on those interviews?

Roger: The biggest eye-opener for me, once I was here for a while, when I would do an interview with someone like Bilbo Walker or L.C. Ulmer or Big George Brock, people of that generation – you know these guys grew up the exact same way, almost without exception, as Charlie Patton, or Son House, or Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters. The plantation system here, sharecropping, segregation, these things were all in place during that huge swathe of time. Like those forefathers of the music, none of the guys I mentioned got to go to school, they were all illiterate. All these factors – it’s like having a bee trapped in amber – which suddenly you’re able to let out. When you asked them questions, you got answers like you would have got from these bluesmen of antiquity. I’m not saying that’s a good thing or a right thing, it’s just how it was.

DATC: It really shows you how the context of the blues is really what gave rise to it. The situation of African Americans in the early decades of the 20^th century and what they went through is what gave rise to the music.

Roger: Absolutely. Big George Brock, for example, told stories of this mule he worked – owned by the plantation of course – named Ida. He would sing to that mule to make her work – but he was ploughing with a mule before they had a tractor. And I’m talking to a guy about this, who is 85 years old and who experienced that. It’s fascinating, and that’s why the music – it may have been updated in terms of electricity, for example – but it still feels the same way.

DATC: Thank you Roger!

Paul Thorn in Conversation: paying tribute to his gospel roots

Paul Thorn has just released his 13^th album, Don’t Let the Devil Ride. It’s an unabashed album of gospel music, with Paul and his band, and a group of top notch collaborators including the Blind Boys of Alabama, the McCrary Sisters, Bonnie Bishop and New Orleans’ Preservation Hall Jazz Horns in scintillating form. It’s heady stuff, rockin’ gospel music with a wonderful, upbeat spirit. “This is the culmination of my whole life in music, coming back to my gospel roots,” Paul says, “I want to help lighten your load and make you smile.”

He goes on: “One of things that I take a lot of pride in is that I love everybody, and what I learned in church paid dividends. When I’m up there entertaining it’s also a glimpse of what my life has been and how gospel music has molded me into who I am.”

Who he is, is a class Americana act – great singer, guitar player and song writer with a quick sense of humour, who has shared a stage with Robert Cray, Bonnie Raitt, Sting, Jeff Beck and Huey Lewis, to name a few. But he’s also a thoroughly nice guy who’s happy to sign autographs and pose for photos with fans at his shows and who feels he owes a debt of gratitude to his mom and dad.

Down at the Crossroads was able to catch up with Paul in Savannah, Georgia, before his gig that night with the Blind Boys of Alabama.

DATC: Hi Paul. Thanks for talking to us today. We were very excited to listen to the new album – it’s been on constant play in my car over the past few days. So, congratulations on that – it really is outstanding. And it’s basically a gospel album – tell us why you wanted to make a record like this.

Paul: Well I grew up the son of a Pentecostal minister and I grew up singing to this type of music. My family are white people, but we always went to the black churches a lot and we worshipped with them, and I just love the black style of gospel music. That’s what I was drawn to and I always had it in my mind that some day I wanted to do a gospel record, and I just thought that this was the right time to pay tribute to my roots – and that’s what I did.

DATC: That’s interesting – going back to your boyhood, what was it like for white people going to a black church in Mississippi back then?

Paul: Truth be told, there were two types of churches growing up. The black people had their own church and the white people had theirs, and we each had a different style of worship. But my family would go visit the black churches and we’d worship with them, and that’s where the music got me, man. White churches did more of a country and western style – which I do like too! – but the black music really got into me, I just loved it.

DATC: There’s always been a bluesy, gospel feel to your music, Paul, hasn’t there?

Paul: That’s exactly right. I live in Tupelo Mississippi which is the birthplace of Elvis Presley, and people always ask me what my influences were and they expect me to say somebody famous. But it’s really not – my biggest influences were people nobody’s heard of, people who sang in church. You know there was a spirit to what they did; it didn’t bother me that they weren’t famous, I was being touched in my heart by the sounds I was hearing.

DATC: So, how did you go about choosing this collection of songs? They’re all old gospel songs, spirituals and others from the African American tradition. How did you pick these songs?

Paul: Well, one thing I did not want to do; I didn’t want to sing gospel songs that had been done a lot. There are a lot of great gospel songs like Amazing Grace or I’ll Fly Away – but too many people have done them, so we just dug around – listed to old records, searched the Internet, we tried to find songs that were good gospel songs, but more obscure. Some of the songs were so obscure we weren’t even able to find out who wrote them. They’re songs that have been forgotten. So that’s how we chose them, we wanted songs that weren’t as familiar.

DATC: You know, one of the songs I was listening to today, The Half Has Never Been Told – your version is terrific – but I remember as a boy singing the original 19^th century Philip Bliss hymn. I haven’t heard that song for 40 odd years, so it took me back!

Paul: Yeah, I wanted these songs to be fresh for a new generation of listeners who’ve never heard these songs.

DATC: And I love the version of You Gotta Move which you’ve changed from Mississippi Fred McDowell’s slow blues into a fantastic upbeat celebration. What’s that song about and why did you give it this sort of treatment?

Paul: Well that’s a good question. I think that song can be what you want it to mean. You got to move could mean get up and dance and rejoice and feel good. It could mean stop being lazy and get up and do some work! It could mean anything. It could mean you’re fixing to die. When you say, when the Lord get ready, it could mean the grim reaper’s coming to take you out. It could mean anything – that’s what I like about it; I want the listener to make it mean what it means to them. It’s got multiple meanings and it’s a good song for that reason.

DATC: I’ve always thought of that song as a resurrection song. You know, the policeman, the woman on the street – everybody’s in the same boat, but in the last day when God moves them bones, everybody’s the same.

Paul: Yeah, exactly right, That’s a strong message. We’ll all the same – whoever you look up to the most in life, your hero, whoever that may be, you have to understand, that person is very flawed. We’re all flawed. Nobody is all good and nobody is all bad. That’s the thing I think this record also says – we’re all in it together.

DATC: That’s interesting. Because the last song, the title track Don’t Let the Devil Ride taps into that old struggle between good and evil, often played out on an individual level. Which you see in a lot of the old blues songs and in the lives of some of the old blues artists.  But that’s a struggle I guess we all face.

Paul: You know the hardest thing in life is doing the right thing. It’s easy doing the wrong thing. Doing the wrong thing is fun! When I think of Don’t Let the Devil Ride I think of temptation. In my world, I guess the strongest temptation for me, and for any man, is women. Know what I mean? My grandfather used to say, when the birds of temptation fly around your head, don’t let them build a nest.

DATC: Wise advice! Well, let me ask you this, Paul – your early history in the church, as I understand it, resulted in you getting thrown out. But here you are all these years later with a lovely dedication to your father and mother on the album sleeve, and saying what you learned in church paid dividends. Tell us how that works.

Paul: Well, you know, my mom and dad, when they got married they were very young, and they started singing gospel music and pastoring churches. They spent their entire lives serving God and serving others. And one of the things I learned from my Dad that has really served me well in life – there’s a lot of people you meet in life that are only nice to certain people, they pick and choose who they’re nice to benefit themselves, but my dad wasn’t like that, he was always a champion for the underdog. And…that’s what I wanna be.

DATC: That’s a great example to have in your life, for sure. Now you recorded the album at Sam Phillips Studio and FAME studio Muscle Shoals and Preservation Hall– 3 very historic locations. Tell us about that experience.

Paul: Well we just wanted to record this authentic music in authentic studios and there’s nothing more authentic than Sam Phillips Studio in Memphis and Rick Hall’s Fame Studio in Muscle Shoals. That’s as authentic as it gets. We recorded half the album at Sam Phillips and half at Fame, and PBS filmed the making of the album, they followed us to both studios. So it’s coming out as a documentary on PBS in May. It’s gonna be a great promotional tool for the record. But we wanted to record the record somewhere that had the spirit to match the music.

DATC: Yeah. It sounds great, And the production and the sound quality on the album is excellent. And you have some wonderful collaborators on the album – the Blind Boys of Alabama, the McCrary Sisters, Bonnie Bishop and the horns. What was it like working with those guys?

Paul: Oh man, it was awesome. The Blind Boys – I love those guys, they’re pros and they know more about gospel music than I’ll ever know, because they’ve been doing it longer than I have. And I like it, because they’re old enough to call me boy! I like that!

DATC: So, they are going to join you, and the McCrary Sisters as well, on some of the dates on your tour?

Paul: Yeah, I’m doing a show with the Blind Boys tonight. We’re going to take this gospel thing as far as we can take it. It’s off to a good start. I just found out yesterday that it debuted on the Americana chart at number 12 and next week it’s gonna be in the Top 100 Billboard chart in the United States. So we’re off to a really good start.

DATC: That’s great, Paul. How does this material go down with your audience, some of whom may have no interest in gospel music faith?

Paul: Well so far it’s gone over great. ‘Cause all of my fans that know me know that I grew up singing gospel music. And believe it or not, for years my fans have been asking me to cut a gospel record. You know, whether you’re a believer or not, the music is great. And when I go on stage, I’m not a preacher – I’m an entertainer. But I am sincere when I sing this music. And the fans love it! I haven’t heard one person say, why’d you do a gospel record? Actually they’ve all said, man, this is what we’ve been waiting on. So everybody wins!

DATC: The album is great, you’ve done a fantastic job. I wish you well for tonight and for all the rest of the tour. Paul, thanks very much.

Visit Paul Thorn here.